Xantia - no front fog lights

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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by RichardW »

BOL shows a separate pump. It should operate with the front washers - I believe this is one of the complaints about them - they use rather a lot of screen wash!! Wiring diag also shows 3 fuses involved - F6 which is the main power feed you've just changed. F12 which seems to be a switching feed from the headlights, and F24 which is the main wash / wipe feed. There's also a connection with the screen wash low level, perhaps to cut out the lamp washers once you get to a certain low level in the tank, AND there's a timer relay. Plenty to be wrong there then :lol:
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

Thanks Richard :)

Yes it was F6 I changed. F12 from memory is one of the headlight fuses so if that was blown a headlight wouldn't work, and F24 must be ok because the main screen wash works... (plus I checked all the fuses yesterday when I found F6 blown, and they were all fine)

Interesting that you say that it also checks the low screen wash level sensor - every time I use my screen wash the screen wash indicator on the dashboard comes on for about 5 seconds then fades out. Does this mean it thinks the screen wash is low ? Because it does it regardless of whether it's filled up or not, and its not all just leaking out through a split in the container because the screen wash seems to last forever... I think I've topped it up only twice in over a year and it's never actually run out on me! :)

If the headlight washers don't work so be it, as long as they don't blow my fog lamp fuse again...
Simon

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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

Bother! The fog lights have stopped again and although I haven't checked the fuse yet I bet its blown again. :?

Shortly before I noticed they weren't working I did have the headlights and wipers on and had used screen wash as well, so I bet that's when it went.

The timer relay you mention, is that between the F6 supply and the headlight washer motor by any chance ? I'm looking for a quick and easy way to isolate the headlight washer motor from F6, and if I can just identify and unplug a relay that will do nicely :) I really don't care if the headlight washers aren't working (especially if they use lots of screen wash!) but I'd like my fog lights to be working...
Simon

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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Ben82 »

Did you uninstall SEDRE? ;)

Just looked there's a few diagrams for "headlamp wash":
Image

5400 is the headlamp wash timer relay.
Locations of C and D
Image

The fuse F6 appears to be on the ground side?
Image

Also the Front fog lamp relay is 2665
Image

Which has a wire BM06A united with BM06, I guess you could cut and isolate that wire so it's no longer connected to the headlamp wash timer? (or remove the relay? :lol: )
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

Ben82 wrote:Did you uninstall SEDRE? ;)
Nope, but the desktop PC it's installed on has been packed in storage since we moved...

I'm trying to get it installed on my Lexia windows partition on the laptop but as you know Sedre is a right pain to install, but I'm needing it often enough lately that I'll have to get it working.
The fuse F6 appears to be on the ground side?
Image
Not in the diagram you posted, F6 is in BF01 which connects to the battery positive at BB00.
Also the Front fog lamp relay is 2665
Image
I'm going to have to study this a bit more because I can't see how F6 blowing would affect the fog lights, it should only stop the headlight washer...I better check which fuse is actually blown...

Also your diagram shows relay 5400 for the headlight washer as the centre relay of the group of three, but on my car the centre one is the starter inhibit relay.
Simon

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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Ben82 »

What's your RPO? I took a stab in the dark at 8600, which is no doubt (very wrong by about 600ish!) wrong. :)

I can then see if it's changed for yours.
Mandrake wrote: Not in the diagram you posted, F6 is in BF01 which connects to the battery positive at BB00.
that's me reading the diagram wrong :)
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

RPO is 7905 but its ok, I've got Sedre working :)

F6 is indeed shared, I just didn't realise that on another diagram for the fog lights (which you didn't show) it also shows F6 feeding the relay for the fog lights. (Still learning auto electrical nomenclature :) )

So as far as I can see I can just unplug and leave out relay 5400 and replace F6 and assuming the short is somewhere in the washer motor or the wiring to it the fog lights should work again without blowing the fuse. I'll give it a try tomorrow. The only slight snag is mine has the locations of the three relays in the fuse box swapped around compared to the diagram (even with the correct RPO) so I'll have to double check I have the right one.

If it still blows I'll know there is an intermittent short somewhere in the fog lamp wiring rather than the washer motor/wiring.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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1978 CX 2400
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Ben82 »

Mandrake wrote:
which you didn't show
Yeah sorry about that, should have mentioned I got that other wire from another diagram....

Still trying to figure out a better way of getting the SVGs from SEDRE across in a complete non-blurry format (rather than zooming using sedre and then capturing that using the windows snipping tool).
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Old-Guy »

It might not be a short in the motor or its wiring, but a seized motor/pump causing the motor to pull a big-enough current to blow the fuse.
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

Ben82 wrote:
Mandrake wrote:
which you didn't show
Yeah sorry about that, should have mentioned I got that other wire from another diagram....

Still trying to figure out a better way of getting the SVGs from SEDRE across in a complete non-blurry format (rather than zooming using sedre and then capturing that using the windows snipping tool).
I know what you mean, viewing them in Sedre is incredibly painful, I don't think they could have designed a more slow and cumbersome interface...not to mention the load time of the app as a whole :roll:

I'd love to export them in a format I can put on my iPad in high resolution as I have copies of most of the other technical documents for the car on there (mostly in PDF or just images) due to portability as a reading device and easy zoom/scroll etc with quick gestures...

Come to think of it Safari should support svg natively, perhaps I should try just copying them over!
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

Old-Guy wrote:It might not be a short in the motor or its wiring, but a seized motor/pump causing the motor to pull a big-enough current to blow the fuse.
Could well be! Either way if isolating the motor by pulling the relay lets me keep my fog lights working I'll be happy...
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Ben82 »

Mandrake wrote:
Ben82 wrote:
Mandrake wrote:
which you didn't show
Yeah sorry about that, should have mentioned I got that other wire from another diagram....

Still trying to figure out a better way of getting the SVGs from SEDRE across in a complete non-blurry format (rather than zooming using sedre and then capturing that using the windows snipping tool).
I know what you mean, viewing them in Sedre is incredibly painful, I don't think they could have designed a more slow and cumbersome interface...not to mention the load time of the app as a whole :roll:

I'd love to export them in a format I can put on my iPad in high resolution as I have copies of most of the other technical documents for the car on there (mostly in PDF or just images) due to portability as a reading device and easy zoom/scroll etc with quick gestures...

Come to think of it Safari should support svg natively, perhaps I should try just copying them over!
Chrome/Safari do support SVGs... however there's one caveat, how do you store them on the device for opening? I just tried on my iPhone4 with DropBox... dropbox just says that there's no apps that can view the file. Getting the link to the file, and opening it in either browser works, but cannot see a way of saving it so it's always available.

I *think* I've found a way of converting them with nodejs (the problem with the raw SVGs in an non-browser app is that they contain some Javascript that accesses the DOM), I found a blog that had a similar issues but with dynamic svg created pie charts. So can probably adapt their code to convert the svg into a decent sized png :)
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Ben82 »

superloopy wrote:What's SEDRE?

Is it readily available?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
"Schématique Electrique pour le Diagnostic et la Réparation", it's Citroen's Wiring Diagrams application.

Yes you can get it online from auto-professionals if you have an account there.... however it is huge (~20Gb), it includes DocBackup too (offline service.citroen.com). There's some ebay sellers selling it for not too much (e.g this one).

It can be a pig to install too. But well worth having (even if the application is really bad to use) :)
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Mandrake »

I've identified the big tall pink relay as the headlight washer relay and timer and removed that, replaced F6 again (yes it was spectacularly blown again with about 3mm of the wire completely vaporised) and the fog lights are running again. We shall see if it lasts this time, assuming it does we'll known its the washer motor or the wiring to it to blame.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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Re: Xantia - no front fog lights

Post by Ben82 »

Well the fruits of my labour can be seen over here.

The process isn't too quick (at the moment) but it's far better than zooming and navigating SEDRE.....
Basically it's
1) find the diagram in SEDRE
2) RIght click on it and select "Copier le SVG"
3) paste it after this html stub in a d3ap61dr.html (temp file I used at the time from a document) file:

Code: Select all

<!DOCTYPE html>
<div style="width:2000px; height: 2000px">
4) run "phantomjs phantom.js" ( http://phantomjs.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
phantom.js being containing:

Code: Select all

var page = require('webpage').create();
page.open('d3ap61dr.html', function () {

    page.render('d3ap61dr.png');
    phantom.exit();
});
rename d3ap51dr.png to whatever you want. :)

Ideally I can see this being improved massively into a website where you can paste the svg into a form and click submit, it'll prepend the stub, and run phantomjs for you, and spitting the png back out to the browser (along with configurable dimensions, but I think the ~2000x2000 res works quite well).
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