2003 citroen xsara picasso 2.0 HDI

[racingbrett]

Hey all, first post and its a problem solver :/

I recently took a gamble on the car above it came at the right price at a time when my old car was about to fall apart (big mot bill) I'm really happy with the pic so far, I'm getting good mpg's 60-62 on slow no lead footed m'way runs and mid to high 40's on the town driving, the issue is that there seems to be a permanent lack of power, putting my foot down would get me no-where fast, in fact it seemed to get faster when slowly lifting the power off, there doesn't seem to be a brick wall as far as speed but i haven't taken it past 70 on the m'way. No starting issues, idle isn't fluctuating, cant hear any tell tale signs of a boost pipe leak and there's no warning lights. So far iv checked the accel cable slack adjustment and checked the brake switch but its a single switch and the brake lights function fine, tmrw its going for a full service (non Citroen so not sure if they have lexia to check it). The question is, any advice of what else to check, next thing i can think to check on is the maf but other than pulling it of the car and looking at it there's not a lot i can do diagnosis wise until i can get hold of a lexia.

Cheers Brett

[Northern_Mike]

Is it the 90bhp diesel? They're no ball of fire. That sounds around the same as my Berlingo.. it's pretty dead after about 75mph but it will wind up to around 100 given long enough, on a private test track of course. I had a tuning box on mine for a while, it made a big difference.

[racingbrett]

it is the 90bhp diesel and this was my other thought, iv moved over from a rover 45 tdi which has a little more power and is lighter so wasnt sure if its just me lol, i did test drive a few others tho which seemed to have a just a little more ooomph. Iv also been considering a remap or tuning box, while the one is supposedly way better its also a lot more expensive so unsure which way to go, but figured its best to make sure everything is ok and that its just me before going down that route.

[Northern_Mike]

Check the airfilter is clean (mine was filthy) change the diesel filter, and give it a good caning. They're not the liveliest of things. The Berlingo is reasonably nippy through the gears then peters out at around 70 as the air resistance overcomes the power. Some here don't like tuning boxes, some swear by them. I had one from a place in Essex, if you want details, send me a PM then I'm not accused of spamming Remaps? There's a place in Somerset and a place in Leeds both recommended by the Berlingoforum chaps. 120 or so BHP with oodles more torque on the standard motor, more if you want to go silly and fit an intercooler and associated gubbins.

[racingbrett]

All filters and oil been done tmrw to see if it helps any, i have no nippyness just a slow crawl and lots of gear changes on even the smallest of hills, but i didnt buy the car for speed more for the mpgs and load space so if thats the way it is i can deal with it, remap or box will help with the torque tho and in turn with the gear changes on hills assuming its just me being used to something a little more peppy

[Peter.N.]

Can you feel the turbo coming in at between 1500-2000 rpm? If not it may not be working, that would make it slow. I have a 110 hp C5 and that will go up most hills in 5th, also a 110hp 406 which does the same but I have driven a 90 hp one and it didn't seem that much slower.

If you can get 60 mpg there can't be a lot wrong with the engine, you can get a chip which will bring it up to about the same as a 110 which is probably cheaper and less hassle than fitting an intercooler. I don't drive fast and often get 60 mpg so I am quite happy with the power I have but if I had to keep changing down I wouldn't be.

Peter

[Northern_Mike]

Can you feel the turbo coming in at between 1500-2000 rpm? If not it may not be working, that would make it slow. I have a 110 hp C5 and that will go up most hills in 5th, also a 110hp 406 which does the same but I have driven a 90 hp one and it didn't seem that much slower.

My 90bhp Berlingo has nowhere near as much grunt as the 110 in the Xantia or C5. There can't be much wrong with it as it accelerates as per Citroen's spec and reaches it's claimed top speed. I think the turbo must be smaller - there's no real telling when it comes in on the 90, not like the 110 where it' s obvious. The 90 seems to rev better, but the gearing is lower on the Berlingo than the Xantia and C5. It needs to be doing 35-40mph to pull happily in 5th, where the Xantia would pull at 30 without shaking.

[racingbrett]

TBH i dont feel the turbo come in and it has/had been a concern, but at the same time iv driven turbo cars where the unit has failed before and the cars wouldnt reach any where near motorway speeds, its something else to check tho

[Lighty]

Sounds like the maf is no good, Picassos are not fast, but not that slow either, try disconnecting the maf (airflow meter) if there is a noticeable difference it is probably no good.

[myglaren]

and/or spray the inside with carburettor cleaner. May help, may not. Sometimes it does and sometimes no effect. Cheaper than a new one though.

[racingbrett]

great. car was mot'd on the 11th this month took it for a service and check over today.
mot advisory note was that the ball joint was slightly worn, the truth is that the ball joint is trashed and a death trap. should have been an MOT FAIL
The front drop link bushes on both sides are trashed again an MOT FAIL
the rear brake cylinders are leaking again an MOT FAIL
track rod end has play. again an MOT FAIL
The water leak listed on the previous mot advisory's that was apparently the water pump and included a cam belt change when fixed was in fact the thermostat housing which hadn't been fixed, the water pump hasn't been changed, the cam belt hasn't been changed and is cracked apparently im lucky it hasn't gone on me taking out the engine.
The aux belt is also split n trashed.
mileage between the mot (passing the mot been part of the condition of sale) on the 11th and now wouldn't have worn the items to the extent they are. Apparently there more than worn there falling apart.
managed to get the trader to stump 200 towards the mot repairs, but hes turned around and denied saying the water pump and "more than likely as there a top garage" cam belt had been changed and that it along with the aux belt are wear and tear so down to my pocket.

All in all not a good day and not a happy chappy.

[racingbrett]

Just picked the car up :/
cambelt kit, waterpump, auxilary belt (all new tensioners ect.)
crankshaft pulley
rear wiper blade
oil filter, oil, cabin filter, fuel filter, air filter
front drop links
2 rear brake cylinders inc a brake fluid flush
front o/s wishbone
10 hrs labour for all the above
Totall £797, thats 200 quid less than i paid on the apparently solid car that was freshly mot'd and had, had the cambelt and water pump done.

The guy put it on the lexia as well, there were a few old random intermittent faults which he cleared and they didn't re-appear, he didn't go into testing individual items tho so still got the maf to check. One thing that did flag up was something along the lines of permanent fault on immobilizer communications (car always starts fine), this wouldnt clear and he didnt delve into it to deep just informed me so i could look into it... Is it possible the immobilizer has been disabled?

Something else they commented on was that the aux belt has a bit of bounce in it (tensioners were replaced), apparantly not anything to worry about but something to keep an eye on, something was mentioned about clutched pulleys causing it, does the xsara picasso have a clutched pulley on the alternator?

Cheers Brett

[Northern_Mike]

great. car was mot'd on the 11th this month took it for a service and check over today.
mot advisory note was that the ball joint was slightly worn, the truth is that the ball joint is trashed and a death trap. should have been an MOT FAIL
The front drop link bushes on both sides are trashed again an MOT FAIL
the rear brake cylinders are leaking again an MOT FAIL
track rod end has play. again an MOT FAIL
The water leak listed on the previous mot advisory's that was apparently the water pump and included a cam belt change when fixed was in fact the thermostat housing which hadn't been fixed, the water pump hasn't been changed, the cam belt hasn't been changed and is cracked apparently im lucky it hasn't gone on me taking out the engine.
The aux belt is also split n trashed.
mileage between the mot (passing the mot been part of the condition of sale) on the 11th and now wouldn't have worn the items to the extent they are. Apparently there more than worn there falling apart.
managed to get the trader to stump 200 towards the mot repairs,

Some of these things aren't a fail. My MX5 passed it's MOT with knackered drop link bushes. There was no play in them. Same goes for track rod ends. Excessive play is a fail, but not just play..

I hope you've got all this in writing and reported the garage responsible for the original test to VOSA, the testing authorities..

[racingbrett]

yup track rod end turned out to be just play but apparently not excessive, drop links had no rubber on them anymore and a lot of play, ball joint has around 1-1.5cm of play. full report and all removed parts are in my possession.
I suppose on the plus side i now know all the above has been done, just need to work on those other few minor things.

[Northern_Mike]

yup track rod end turned out to be just play but apparently not excessive, drop links had no rubber on them anymore and a lot of play, ball joint has around 1-1.5cm of play. full report and all removed parts are in my possession.
I suppose on the plus side i now know all the above has been done, just need to work on those other few minor things.

Good, stitch the MOT station that did the original test up good and proper. If they've been doing dodgy tests for dodgy traders, VOSA won't like it one bit. Must be a "friend" of the place you bought it from, you don't risk your testing credentials for someone you don't trust. Nail them good and proper. Good luck, and yes, it's a good thing you've now got yours sorted properly and know it's safe. It's not really cost you more than a good one with all these jobs done and in known good nick would have done, so luckily no one was harmed, and you still got £200 back for your trouble.