brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

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redtoby
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by redtoby »

Well the blowing fuse yes is fuse 28 not sure what amp it is off the top of my head? The clicking relay is light green,there are 3 of them and 2 black ones more in the foot well below the main fuses,its not the indicator relay,i have already replaced that one-No luck!!
Battery fine,tried to jump it with the father in laws car and still wont turn over,the key barrel and lock is not stuck it turns all the way round to starting position.
What i was wondering as there are so many different types of xantia is there one fuse which does the ignition on its own>??
The hand book has the numbers of all the fuses in the car and in the engine bay but not one in the handbook or Haynes points to a specific relay that does the ignition and you think there would be one???
I will explore the wiirng below the rad, good idea many thanks again for all your help. will keep you posted.!! :)
redtoby
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by redtoby »

p.p.s no tow bar.
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

According to my handbook, F28 is blue, 15 amp, and powers "Storage boxes lighting, direction indicator lamps, rear screen wiper, passenger's rear view mirror control, and the reading lamp".

I hope this helps.
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by RichardW »

Ignore this - it's bollox (based on Mk2) :lol:

I had a thought about this earlier. When the alternator packed up on mine, I drove it home, and the battery power dropped. By the time I got home, every time I braked, the voltage dropped so far that the radio went off (and the airbag and ABS lights came on, but mine is a Mk2). Also, had a problem with the rear wiper that was causing a short which meant that every time I switched on the rear wiper it blew the fuse which runs the indicators. All sounding a bit familiar....????

So I reckon the alternator has packed up, hence the battery light (or one of the clamps has failed, and hence the alternator is not charging). This has drained the battery, hence the radio going off, and now the failure to start. Have you got access to a volt meter? Check the battery voltage. Charge it if you can, then see if it will start. Then try unplugging the rear wiper (you will need to take the rear door liner off), re fit the fuse and see if it no longer blows.
Last edited by RichardW on 28 Jan 2013, 20:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Xantidote »

Still trying get my head round this.

Hell Razor's given some info on fuse 28, but this may be for a later car? Looking at wiring diagrams in my Haynes for early (pre 1998) Xantia, it shows that fuse 28 feeds brakes' circuits, indicators (& hazard lamps), and rear electric windows control unit. Your car being VSX, it may cover other items such as ABS if you have it - alas Haynes doesn't go into detailed wiring diagrams of the different models, and one mustn't assume all in Haynes is gospel, but it's a good guide & starting point. The fact that 28 blows suggests to me that there must be a short, probably to earth, somewhere after fuse 28 in one of these circuits. When does it blow? - ie.does fuse 28 blow without key in the ignition, or on first position of key being turned, 2nd position, or 3rd if you have one?

Going back to your original post, it seems odd that this first happened when you braked hard. So I'm suggesting that first off, go back to the brake pedal, find the brake lamps switch, and IIRC, you should somehow be able to disconnect the 2 wires that go to it. Can't remember exactly, but probably there's a plug that connects into the switch. Pull the plug & retry electrics ie. fuse 28 (hope you've got a bagful of spare fuses :-D ) . What this should show is whether the fault is between there and the rear brake lights. If fault still remains, then fault lies elsewhere.

By the way, do the hazard lights function OK? They'll work with no key, so test them, and give the hazard lights switch a few goes, to make sure it is working OK.

From what I understand from the diagrams, the starter should spin so long as the key is turned, always assuming the key switch is working OK - there's no fuse in that part of the circuitry. Also presuming starter and it's solenoid are OK. If there is a short, then I suppose it's then possible that not enough current is getting to the starter for it to function. Am bit bothered about the short, as a bad short would be dangerous (ie. fire risk, hence metal foil or a nail to replace fuse, as done in the old days, is not a good idea!)

if you have got to here and thinking, what do I do next, then I'm not sure, but tempted to suggest pulling the relay that keeps ticking madly.
Martin

1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased :( )
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by RichardW »

Think you're on a better track than me Xantidote....!

Should be able to pop the brake switch out (it's in the pedal itself) and disconnect it to see if this circuit is the problem. Chances are the battery is flat now though, if it's been driven without the alternator charging (as evidenced by the light being on).
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Xantidote »

Interesting what Richard says - there are similarities between your situation and Toby's. Try the voltmeter on battery to confirm well charged (my suggestion was to try headlamps). When you tried jumping from father's car, did you get any response from your car? Not sure about innerworkings of alternator, but I think it's possible for the rectifier diodes to fail and short out, so might be the cause.

To remove the alternator from the circuits, you could disconnect the 2-3 (?) wires from the alternator, and see if this makes any difference (ie. brakes & indicators all work, and no blown fuse 28)

When you try to start car, check the battery terminals don't get hot.
Last edited by Xantidote on 29 Jan 2013, 09:53, edited 1 time in total.
Martin

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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Xantidote »

Well Toby, we've given you a few things to think about and try out :-D

So much easier to have the offending car in front of you. Probably takes longer for me to type out an idea, than it does for you to check it out :-D

At least we are narrowing it down bit by bit, and I've got tomorrow to think a bit more about it.
Martin

1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased :( )
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I do agree that the fuse info I gave might be wrong, as my Xantia is an S2. However, I was trying to help.

The fact that the battery light has been on does strongly suggest that the alternator isn't doing its' job. I would take the battery out and put it on charge (so that it doesn't fail, as a battery without a full charge will fail within a week or so), and then see if the alternator brushes have failed. A replacement alternator won't be cheap, but a set of brushes could come in under £20.
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 28 Jan 2013, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
redtoby
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by redtoby »

My god thanks to all for the sterling advice and very detailed answers i shall digest everyones advice and keep you all posted thanks for all the advice =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by redtoby »

Hi to all again have not done much to my bloody xantia,but think on about why and how and got some good advice the other day i was told that as it is a automatic gearbox one of the things that could have failed is the "starter inhibitor/reversing light switch" which is located on the transmission,but canot tell from the haynes exactly where??
Now the reverse lights are not working so tyhis is a clear sign yes ??? but i am not sure if this would work without the car running?? any ideas?? :?:
Also a clearer guide or advice as to how to ID the switch as this could be why the car it refusing to turn.
any thoughts or musings would be greatly appreciated.
many thanks :-D
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Xantidote »

Not so many of us own Xantia automatics, so guess you'll have to wait for some rare beastie to reply. I'd expect the inhibitor switch would only allow you to start the car when neutral is selected? A failed switch could be one reason why the car doesn't start. According to Haynes, the inhibitor switch is fed from fuse F3
Martin

1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased :( )
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Re: brake lights and indicators not working!! HELP

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I'd wait for CitroJim or (possibly) Mandrake to catch up on this thread. They both have automatic Xantias, and CitroJim repairs the gearboxes as he finds it theraputic.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
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