HDI clutch

[isisalar]

I recently changed my 1.9td for a newer HDI. The clutch on the td was a bit heavy and juddered quite badly so it's an absolute pleasure to use the very smooth and light clutch in the HDI.
Is the clutch in the HDI hydraulic and for this reason much lighter?
I have never ever had a clutch replaced that hasn't juddered as a result and as far as I can see the HDI is still on its original smooth as silk unit (160k). I know it depends on use but can anyone give me any pointers as to how long they last?
Am I now free of the curse of the clutch clip?
Kind regards
Paul

[electronmirror]

Hello Paul,

Looks like we have the same model of Xantia. The Exclusive HDI does have the hydraulically operated clutch and the stronger, cable change ML 5 gearbox because of the greater torque from the 110BHP engine. The 90BHP HDI had the cable operated version with the rod operated g/box.

The clutch on mine was changed at 100k miles under the warranty and in the subsequent 109k miles I've had no problems with it in spite of the fact that 60% of my driving in the last 5 years has been rush hour crawling through Reading traffic.

[CitroJim]

The hydraulic clutch and ML5T gearbox combination is an excellent one. The clutches tend to go on and on and on but can suffer catastrophic failure of the release bearing although this is rare.

Swapping the hydraulic clutch is very easy bar the gearbox is bigger and heavier than the 1.9TD BE3 unit. It's actually a lot easier than doing the 'pull' clutch on the BE3 which can be an absolute devil to line up. A special tool is needed to engage the release bearing on the hydraulic clutch.

Don't worry if a hydraulic clutch 'bites' right at the top of the pedal - many do and it's not a sign they're worn out or about to let go. The first sign that a hydraulic clutch is beginning to think about wearing is a little slip when driving with enthusiasm. Even then they soldier on for a good few more miles.

And yes, no clutch clip to worry about. The hydraulics are very reliable...

[citroenxm]

The clutches tend to go on and on and on but can suffer catastrophic failure of the release bearing although this is rare.



And yes, no clutch clip to worry about. The hydraulics are very reliable...

Hmmm Jim, Not so sure about that.. I did a clutch job once for a customer who had clutch cover with the AA, I found out from them that the release bearings are a COMMON failiure and they got a lot of claims for the premature failiure..

I had another of my own once, the friction plate was good, but the release bearing also failed on that. Both 110 Hydraulic clutch's

However, my own exclusive, now on 232k, is I beleve also on its original clutch. I bought the car at 156k and beleved it was the original then, and Ive run it to 232k. It has been through the badly slipping stage but then stopped again. I even tow a trailer with a car on the back and it doesnt slip!

Mine has no signs of release bearing issues either. So Yes also, they can keep going on smoothly for many miles!

The hydraulic master and slave cylinder setup though is sealed, is rather reliable, but Id heard from the dealer that early models had suffered a bit from slave clylinder failiure, but NEVER had this at all myself.

Ive a spare one anyway in the shed..

HDi 90 cars, though in the Xantias were all cable and linkage gearchange, it is a BE3 gearbox with a push clutch on them. However, this was changed after 2002, and later HDi 90 setups (in the C5 and 406's) also changed to Hydraulic clutch too.. Ive not studied closely as which box they have. I dont think its a ML5 box though!

ML5 clutch's are neat. You install them the SAME as a push clutch with the release bearing on the input shaft, and the friction and pressure plate on the engine, mate the gearbox, then REVERSE operate the release arm through the starter motor hole to mate the release bearing to the pressure plate. So NO Special tools are required what so ever!!!!

[isisalar]

Thanks again Jim for the info.
My main concern is that I'll get another 'judderer' when it does eventually get replaced.
Electronmirror, when your clutch was replaced did it judder and who did the work?
Glad to know I'm free of clutch clips!
Kind regards

[electronmirror]

Paul,
When it was replaced it was like new, no hint of judder and it's been fine like that for the last few years. The job was done by my local independent Citroen specialist because I couldn't spare the time, also he offered a courtesy car and used a Valeo clutch kit, not some unbranded cheapie.

Ted

[citroenxm]

The few, and thats about 4 that I have changed have NOT had a judder.. With a far supieriour and smoother pedal to clutch action due to the hydraulic action theres smoother application.

My guess is on the TD it could of been a combination of a cheaper clutch kit used, unless prooved, and the NON Replacment of the plastic bush's that the release arm sits and operates in..

[isisalar]

The clutch in the td was a valeo, and was replaced twice after the first one juddered and I complained. The flywheel was also skimmed the second time. They said they replaced all the necessary bushes etc.
I have never known a changed clutch not to judder so I'm pleased to hear that it is possible.
Thanks

[citroenxm]

Ive done TD cluch's too, and not had a juddery one.

Dooing it your self, you know what EXACTLY you use. A garage or third party can fit anything and then tell you anything after that you want to hear.. You cannot exactly tell once the box is fitted back on the engine...

[CitroJim]

The secret when doing a 1.9TD clutch is to use a good OEM one and to replace the nylon release arm bushes as a matter of course.

[myglaren]

I've changed a few clutches and never had one judder.
I had the estate's clutch and flywheel replaced and there was not the slightest hint of judder from that either.

[Lighty]

I think the reason they judder, apart from poor quality clutches, is that when the garage is fitting the gearbox back in, it can be very difficult to get the gearbox splines to line up straight away, most mechanics run out of strength after a couple of goes, and leave the box partially engaged, but with the weight of the box resting on the clutch centre plate. I think this can distort that part, hence damaging it and causing the judder.

[addo]

Interesting and plausible theory. There's a lot to be said for a tranny jack!

[CitroJim]

Interesting and plausible theory. There's a lot to be said for a tranny jack!

Knowing how incredibly frustrating a 1.9TD can be in this respect I'd agree. I use an engine crane.

It's funny, you can faff and faff about for ages and ages and then, just when you're about to call the scrap man the thing slides together as sweet as a nut

[Chris570]

Interesting and plausible theory. There's a lot to be said for a tranny jack!

Knowing how incredibly frustrating a 1.9TD can be in this respect I'd agree. I use an engine crane.

It's funny, you can faff and faff about for ages and ages and then, just when you're about to call the scrap man the thing slides together as sweet as a nut

That's because it knows!!

I've done loads of clutches, and i've only ever had a judder once with a cheap ebay clutch, after that Valeo where possible, but the HDi has an LUK clutch and that has been perfect as well. Infact I've an LUK clutch to fit to the activa when i get 10 mins spare.