re program C5 fob

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Ben82
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Ben82 »

deano1970 wrote:is it a hard job to take out an old blade from a fob and get a new one cut?? I will wait to see if the fob works first,then,if it does, I will see if they can put my new key on the fob,that would be great......so, in the lexia,there wasn't anything you needed to do as regards your fob ben? from what you wrote it's just a matter of putting in a key and holding down the lock button? nothing to do with the lexia? if that's the case, it may work, i don't know but I am sure to find out over the next few days......fingers crossed...my car is an 03 so you say it will be single chip? if that's the case,I will probably get one done at £25.00 just as a back up..... :lol:
I think the blades for fobs and normal keys have different ends to them so would be better to see if the fob works first :)

Nothing needed with Lexia for the pairing of the fob, I actually needed to do it again for some reason. And did it without my laptop even in the car :)

Sounds like yours will be exactly the same as mine then.
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Ben82 »

deano1970 wrote:oh, and ben, on the carkey site, they say that if you don't provide a code,they will send it with the key....did you already have your code? I do not have this and it may be worth finding that out if they supply that info as well as a key??
no I didn't have one, they gave me it in an email after dispatch :) note, it's the mechanical key code not the one for using in the Lexia. The one in Lexia is a short 4 character code, which is on the card with the car, if you don't have it there are ways of getting it. Think birdman is the person to ask here.
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by deano1970 »

aah yes, I have been in contact with birdman and he can get me my four digit code.......I need to supply him with my vin number and whatever the payment is for finding the code.....I got nothing really with the car only one hard key, no service history or anything......so any bit of info i can gather on the car is helpful :)
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Mandrake »

deano1970 wrote:hiya ben,
nice one...glad you got the key working ok and now have a spare.......so, when it gave instructions to re program fob, I take it from that,that I could indeed buy a remote off e bay and use that to unlock doors and lock doors??
If you program the fob to the car with a Lexia then yes you should be able to get a second hand fob to work with the car.
or does the key from the fob need to be in the ignition?? If this was the case, and I only want a fob for locking/unlocking, could i program a fob with an existing key in the ignition??
As far as I know you don't need the fob in the ignition to program the RF transmitter part of it, the transmitter and the transponder are completely separate and are programmed at a different point of the process.
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Mandrake »

Ben82 wrote: Nothing needed with Lexia for the pairing of the fob, I actually needed to do it again for some reason. And did it without my laptop even in the car :)

Sounds like yours will be exactly the same as mine then.
Don't confuse pairing the fob with resynchronising it. What you describe where you put the key in the ignition, turn the key on and press the button on the fob will NOT pair a new fob, it will only resynchronise an already paired fob which has lost synchronisation and stopped working.

Pairing is the process of teaching the BSI (with a Lexia) the private key stored in the fob which is unique per fob, without this it won't recognise it.

In addition to this the fob uses a "rolling code" which means every time you press the button the fob transmits a different pseudo random code which is based on both its private key and a counter which increments each time you press the button.

When the BSI knows the private key of the fob and the most recently transmitted rolling code it can anticipate the next code that the fob will transmit and will not accept the same code twice in a row. This is to prevent someone simply recording the transmission and replying it later to unlock your car...(which they could do if the code was the same every time)

If you press the button outside the range of the receiver the fob moves onto the next rolling code for each press however the BSI receiver is still expecting the same code so they can get out of sync. To avoid this there is a "grace" window of about 20 codes which means that the BSI will accept not just the next expected code, but also any of the 19 that would follow after that.

In practice this means they will not get out of sync as long as you don't press the buttons on the fob more than about 20 times whilst out of range of the car - if you do they will lose synchronisation and the car will no longer respond to the fob until you do the resynchronisation process where you turn the key on and press the button.

Synchronisation can also be lost if the battery in the fob goes flat or is changed (it forgets where it was up to in the rolling code sequence) but this is not the same as it being unpaired - once paired the BSI will not forget the pairing unless you reprogram again with a Lexia and deliberately leave out the fob in the reprogramming process. (Now the BSI has truly forgotten the fob - for example if you were selling an excess fob and don't want the new owner to be able to open both their car and yours with the same fob!)

You can also unpair a transponder in a key by going through the Lexia reprogramming process and leaving out that key. The key will still open the door but it won't start the engine, nor will it silence the alarm when the ignition is turned on. My Xantia came with one fob and one spare key but the Lexia showed that the car was previously programmed for 3 transponders - so somewhere out there is another key that matched my car.

By reprogramming my actual keys the car will no longer let that mystery key start the car or silence the alarm. Call me paranoid but I thought it was worth doing. :lol:
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by deano1970 »

so simon,
are you saying that to pair a fob, the key will need to be in the ignition and a lexia used?? you will gather from previous posts that I have bought a second hand fob just with the intention of being able to lock/unlock it,not bothered about it starting the car as it will obviously come with an old blade from another car. What I need to know is, will i be able to program this fob with the use of a lexia? or is it not possible because the key attached to the fob will not be in the ignition? I purely need it for locking/unlocking purposes? Have I wasted my money?? It was cheap and I can re sell it,but if it's no use to anybody, why do people buy them? or is it a case of people like me buying them and not really understanding how it all works?? :|
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Ben82 »

Mandrake wrote:
Ben82 wrote: Don't confuse pairing the fob with resynchronising it. What you describe where you put the key in the ignition, turn the key on and press the button on the fob will NOT pair a new fob, it will only resynchronise an already paired fob which has lost synchronisation and stopped working.

Pairing is the process of teaching the BSI (with a Lexia) the private key stored in the fob which is unique per fob, without this it won't recognise it.
Of course, I was getting a bit ahead of myself within thinking the transponder was the part that couldn't be paired with a new car.... Don't think this will work deano :(
I think people buy them because they are unaware that they cannot be paired to a new car (the sellers probably aren't either), but see the instructions about the programming etc, and think it'll be fine.
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Mandrake »

I think you two are getting a bit confused and going around and around in circles... :wink:

It's quite simple really - a Lexia can program the car to accept a new or second hand key transponder and/or the RF transmitter in a fob. As long as he has access to a Lexia and the 4 character confidential code deano can do what he is trying to do...
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Ben82 »

Mandrake wrote:I think you two are getting a bit confused and going around and around in circles... :wink:

It's quite simple really - a Lexia can program the car to accept a new or second hand key transponder and/or the RF transmitter in a fob. As long as he has access to a Lexia and the 4 character confidential code deano can do what he is trying to do...
Are you sure a the remote portion of a 2nd hand key can be re-paired with a different car? It seems JohnD did this a few years back, but can only use the key like the one I received today.
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by Mandrake »

I suggest that now deano has a fob he finds someone nearby with a Lexia and just tries it. As far as I'm aware it will work just fine, and I have every reason to believe so...however until then we are just going around in circles uselessly speculating for a 6th page now. Just try it already! :lol:

The BSI has no idea whether a fob is new or second hand, as nothing is changed on the fob during the pairing process. As far as the BSI is concerned its just a fob that it hasn't been introduced to before...(same goes for the transponder chips)
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by oneday »

dean if you like i could come over this weekend again and lets see if it will work. before we get to 20 pages then we will have the answer
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by deano1970 »

haha cheers derek,and cheers simon.......I do not have the fob as yet derek.I paid for it last night so I will mail them and ask if they can get it sent out asap.......I will let you know if it arrives... you sure you don't want me to come over there? must be my turn.... :-D but it's up to you....just like to see if it works and put everybodys mind at ease......from what simon(mandrake)says, it is logical that through a lexia, it should work, as he says,the bsi doesn't know whether the fob is new or old,so I will see how long the fob takes to arrive....hopefully before page 20 :)
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by oneday »

did you get your key code yet
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by deano1970 »

hi derek, yes I paid birdman for it last night so have that, the seller of the fob assures me they will post it first class tomorrow so it could be here before the end of the week all being well... :)
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Re: re program C5 fob

Post by oneday »

ok let me know when it arrives and we can sort something out
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