Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

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gpz900ra7
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Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

Hi guys I am in need of some of your excellent expert advice regarding an issue I'm currently having with my R plate Xantia 2.0 16v SXi.

I have had to replace 2 of the hydraulic pipes in the engine compartment, the 2 being the long pipe from the front accumulator sphere block to the Electrovalve, and the shorter pipe from the Electrovalve to the Anti Sink valve.

I have fitted 2 new pipes and for some reason the left front strut has decided to become a bit on the lazy side and does not respond the same as the opposite side does.

One thing though, the long pipe that I removed off the car was a slightly larger diameter to the shorter pipe but I mistakenly fitted the smaller 3.5mm pipe in its place, so will this have a bearing on the lack of suspension performance?

The ride is now very bumpy at the front and is making my eyeballs jump about inside my head, not a good feeling at all.

My question is this,... what have I done wrong when I fitted the new pipes or is it down to a combination of faulty spheres and something else????

The car rises and falls with no issues apart from the left front corner.

Please help guys as its doing my head in, literally :roll:

Many thanks, and Merry Christmas. :Santa:


Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by citronut »

first thing i would look at/replace would be the corner sphere/s,

how did you get a smaller pipe to fit
Regards, malcolm.

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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by Mandrake »

gpz900ra7 wrote:Hi guys I am in need of some of your excellent expert advice regarding an issue I'm currently having with my R plate Xantia 2.0 16v SXi.

I have had to replace 2 of the hydraulic pipes in the engine compartment, the 2 being the long pipe from the front accumulator sphere block to the Electrovalve, and the shorter pipe from the Electrovalve to the Anti Sink valve.

I have fitted 2 new pipes and for some reason the left front strut has decided to become a bit on the lazy side and does not respond the same as the opposite side does.

One thing though, the long pipe that I removed off the car was a slightly larger diameter to the shorter pipe but I mistakenly fitted the smaller 3.5mm pipe in its place, so will this have a bearing on the lack of suspension performance?
To me its unclear whether you have Hydractive 2 suspension or not. You talk about an Electrovalve and front accumulator sphere, yet you say you have an SX - in Series 1 Xantia's the SX and lower are standard Hydropnuematic, while only the VSX spec is Hydractive 2.

Are you sure you don't mean height corrector when you say electrovalve ? It's hard to offer suggestions until we're 100% clear on whether you have Hydractive 2 or not. If you do you'll have 10mm steel pipes coming out of the front suspension struts that attach to large tractor size flexible hydraulic hoses (clamped to the front inner wings) if you have standard Hydropneumatic the pipes going into the strut top will be 3.5mm. If you can confirm which you have we can go from there...
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
gpz900ra7
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

The car doesn't have the larger pipes from the struts and has only 6 spheres in total.

The Electrovalve I assume is the junction which has an electrical connector with one wire coming out of the top of it, but maybe I'm wrong on that?

Before I changed the pipes the car was behaving itself quite well but as soon as the pipes went on and I refilled the system with LHM that's when the left front strut went AWOL on me.

The pump is clicking at about 1 click every 30 seconds or so, so I think that is OK.

The pipe actually has the same size of fitting just the outer diameter of the pipe is smaller and it seems to have sealed alright, but I'll give it another check in daylight tomorrow just to make sure.

Thanks for the replies so far guys.



Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

After running the car about for a week or so since I replaced the 2 pipes I have noticed that there is a fluid leak coming from somewhere under the LHM tank and that I am losing quite a substantial amount of green blood :? , plus the issue with the lay strut is still there even after swapping the front spheres from one side to the other.

I was hoping that someone on this forum has either got a diagram or pictures relating to the Anti sink valve pipework and the 4 way junction with the electrical connector that sits just underneath that valve?

Any help would be great just so I know that I have connected the pipes back to their correct locations.

Cheers guys.


Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

Hi guys, after doing a bit more digging on this great forum I have found out the name of the junction thingy with the wire coming out of it :lol: ....


Its called a "Priority Valve" so I was hoping that someone could shed some light as to the correct order of the pipe connections from this to the "Anti sink valve"


Cheers guys.


Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

Hi again guys, sorry if I am being a pain but I really need this sorting out.

Found these diagrams after some serious Google-fu searching.....


Image


Image

What I need clarifying is this...

what is the correct order of fitments for the pipes that connect to the "Anti sink valve", does the pipe from the top of the "ASV" go to the front or rear suspension via the "Security/ Priority Valve"?

At the minute the shorter of the 2 pipes I replaced is coming from the place I removed it off the Security/Priority Valve but I think I may have connected it to the wrong location on the "ASV".

Once I confirm where the leak is coming from I can hopefully put this matter to rest once and for all, or until the next time of course :roll: :wink:

Many thanks in advance for your help fella's.


Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by Mandrake »

Hi Shaun,

Sorry for the delay in replying - I have seen your posts but every time I see them it's when I'm reading the forum on my phone away from home and by the time I'm at a computer where I have the data available and a proper keyboard to compose a reply on I've forgotten about it again.

The image you show is of an anti-sink valve, not the priority valve. They're quite similar in appearance, but perform very different functions.

A quick primer on the basics of the hydraulic system so you have an idea of what the purpose of each relevant component is.

High pressure is generated by the HP pump on the aux belt and is piped to the pressure regulator, which has the accumulator sphere attached to it as a buffer, and it has a simple pressure regulation system that consists of allowing the output from the pump to be fed to the sphere (and the rest of the hydraulic system) when the pressure is below 135 bars, and to be bypassed and sent back to the hydraulic tank when the pressure is above 170 bars. This way the pressure is kept regulated between those two figures when the engine is running despite variations in demand.

The first place this regulated pressure goes to is the priority valve. (Also known as security valve) It has 3 purposes but its primary purpose is to provide priority to the brakes over the suspension. It's a simple pressure operated valve - above about 100 bars all ports are open, meaning pressure is supplied to both suspension and front brakes. (Rear brakes are fed from rear suspension) Below about 100 bars the slide valve moves and the supply to the suspension is cut off, but the supply to the front brakes is maintained. This means if there is any fault causing a loss of pressure (such as a snapped aux belt) the supply to the suspension is cut off as "non essential" to allow the front brakes to work as long as possible from the pressure stored in the accumulator sphere.

The second purpose of the priority valve is that its a pressure distribution block - when open above 100 bars it works as a 4 way junction. One port is the input from the pressure regulator, one is the output to the front brakes (actually goes to the brake doseur valve) and the other two go to the front and rear anti-sink valves. The third purpose is it houses a pressure switch in it - this is the switch that causes the hydraulic light to come on when the pressure is low. The light being out with the ignition on means there is at least 100 bars of pressure available at the pressure regulator/accumulator.

In an older Citroen (before anti-sink) the pressure from the priority valve would then go straight to the height corrector which would supply the suspension when needed to top up it up, and alternatively connect the suspension to the overflow return to lower the suspension. The problem with this is that height correctors are inherently leaky in their design as they have no o-rings on the controlling shaft, (to make them as precise and sensitive as possible) this is the source of leakage that makes older Citroen's go down on their haunches between 30 minutes and a few hours.

Anti-sink was introduced on early Xantia's and consists of another slide valve which is inserted both before and after the height corrector, which when activated isolates the height corrector from both the suspension and the source of high pressure supply. This valve does have o-rings and has very low leakage rates. This dramatically reduces the overall leakage rate thus anti-sink Xantia's can stay up for days without losing much height. The valve is triggered to close off any time the pressure supply (from the accumulator sphere/pressure regulator) is lower than the pressure currently in the suspension. (It's a differential valve)

The priority valve is down near the firewall and has an electrical connector on it, whilst the front anti-sink valve is mounted somewhere under the hydraulic reservoir tank and looks similar but has no electrical connector. If its the one under the reservoir that's leaking then its the anti-sink valve. Apparently it's not uncommon for the o-ring in them to fail which can cause a massive leak, however it can be taken apart and have the o-ring replaced without too much difficulty. (Making sure its the right size and material for the o-ring) There are threads about this on the forum.

Finally here's a much better piping diagram of the suspension / anti-sink valves and so on. The piping is quite different for hydractive and no hydractive as well as the anti-sink valves themselves, and the document covers both so make sure you're looking at the right one. :) (yours is non-hydractive) It should answer most if not all of your questions about what is piped to where...

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... /antisink/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

Cheers for the reply Simon, and for the excellent information, looks like I'm finally going in the right direction.


Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

Well I managed to refit the pipes to their correct positions on the ASV and now the car behaves like it should, back to the magic carpet feel again.

Thanks for all your input guys.

Merry Christmas.


Shaun.
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by Mandrake »

Excellent. :-D Out of interest, which pipes on the anti-sink valve were transposed ?
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia bouncy front and lazy strut.

Post by gpz900ra7 »

If you look on the diagram of the "ASV" the 3 pipes on the right hand side.

I had the pipe from the Security valve going to the top connection, and the "Out to suspension" pipes connected wrong as well, but the 2 pipes to the Height corrector were OK so 2 out of 5 wasn't too bad, lol.

Had a quick check and there doesn't seem to be any more fluid loss and the car doesn't sink even after 2 days.

Citroen's, you have got to love 'em don't ya, ha ha.

Happy New Year folks.


Shaun.
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