C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

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horsedentist
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C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by horsedentist »

Hi
I wonder if anyone can assist me please I have a major vacuum problem on a c5 I have just purchased. Brief history saw it advertised on a well known auction site with problems ie:
Loud knocking from engine bay and occasionaly going into limp mode with anti pollution warning.
Having done plenty of research thought I could probably fix it I identified the knocking as the crankshaft pulley and the limp mode as a vacuum issue so I bit the bullet and bought it as it happens for very few beer tokens.
I replaced the pulley and hey presto quite as a mouse well as quite as a diesel mouse can be lol.

Now the vacuum, got someone to slowly rev it up for me and the swirl valve opened at around 2300 rpm and immediately snapped shut again so I thought bingo not holding a vacuum, so thought I would try the suggestion in a thread on the forum of removing the top pipe from the electro valve and blanking it off to see if that would confirm my diagnosis. This is where I hit a major snag, when I was looking to make sure I was disconnecting the correct pipe, I noticed the top pipe on the electro valve was not in its clip as I pressed it into the clip the end behind the servo swung in the breeze. With the aid of a very high power head lamp I use for work I was able to see that the short plastic spigot the pipe attaches too is broken only about
1/4 " (if that) remains attached to the servo so you can just flick the pipe and it falls off. It must be barely holding in place by the vacuum. As a temporary measure to see if that is the problem I have managed to put a large blob of silicone gasket over the stub (after fashioning a tool out of a bent coat hanger that a chimp would have been proud of) thus hopefully achieving the same result as plugging the pipe.

However will this need the replacement of the complete brake servo do you think as the fitting appears to be attached to the back of it? Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated.

Eric
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by myglaren »

Would it be possible to post a couple of photo's.
It would help us to offer suggestions if we can see the damage. Perhaps it could be sleeved?
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by horsedentist »

myglaren wrote:Would it be possible to post a couple of photo's.
It would help us to offer suggestions if we can see the damage. Perhaps it could be sleeved?
I don't know how you could photograph it. Its right round the back of the brake servo. I had to get at a peculiar angle just to see where the damn thing had come from if it was accessible I would drill it and araldite a replacement in there but don't think you could get to it and there is not enough of it to glue the pipe to either.
I take it I am right and this is the vacuum supply for the swirl actuator valve?

Update :

Took it for a spin this morning after leaving overnight for the gasket seal to set and still the same, acceleration is great no problems until you cruise at around 70mph on the motor way and after about 2 miles ESP/ASR fault light comes on then anti pollution plus management light and flashing service warning then car goes into limp mode. If you stop reset by turning off the ignition for a few seconds then stay around 65 mph or less no ESP/ASR fault and no limp mode though service light and engine management light are still on from first failure.
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I'm a bit mystified with your description of the spigot on the servo, there's a picture I put up of the C5 servo in this thread, maybe you can say whereabouts on the picture your spigot is.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 8&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by horsedentist »

Gibbo2286 wrote:I'm a bit mystified with your description of the spigot on the servo, there's a picture I put up of the C5 servo in this thread, maybe you can say whereabouts on the picture your spigot is.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 8&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No not there.

If you remove the flexible pipe between the air box and the rigid plastic inlet pipe as shown in your picture beneath that is an electro valve with a black plastic pipe on the top and another on the side lower down the lower one disappears somewhere behind the egr pipe I assume to the swirl valve? The top pipe has a right angled rubber connection and it then goes towards the bulkhead and has a 45 degree kink to the right to take it just behind the lower part of of the servo where it should be attached to some valve or reservoir. It is this attachment which is broken. The plastic pipe should have been in a clip approx halfway along its length but was flapping free so assume someone has had it off for some reason in the past or has accidentally pulled it off breaking the connector. The flexible inlet pipe was attached with a cable tie at the bulkhead end not a jubilee clip so some one has messed about in there.

Eric

Ok folks I now have some pictures

004.JPG
This is the valve in question it sits just behind the left corner of the airbox view from front towards the bulk head and the top pipe is the one that is detached at the other end.
002.JPG
This where it goes behind the servo you can see the blue gasket seal on the side of the servo where I worked it round the corner with a piece of wire. I think that one of the servo pipes shown in your photo (the one in the middle may also go down to this unit) but I will have to move the rigid air intake pipe to get in there to confirm that.
Anyone got any ideas??
Last edited by horsedentist on 13 Nov 2012, 13:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Mine as in the picture is a 2.0 HDI so that's different to your 2.2.
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Are these any help:
Image

Image

Image
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by horsedentist »

That is helpful yes now if someone can confirm that the valve in my picture is in fact the swirl activation valve. Then I would say that the bit that has a broken spigot is the vacuum reserve.

Can any one confirm that I am correct in the identification of the electro valve in question?

004.JPG
Assuming that I am correct if my seal has worked then the swirl valve should be deactivated so as it is still cutting the turbo when cruising at 70 then it can't be the swirl valve that is leaking me thinks. Has anyone any idea what else might cause this? If my seal is not air tight and there is a leak at the reserve would it still show the same fault?
I can thrash it on acceleration and the turbo works fine it is only when cruising at 70 that it crashes.
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Monkeyfeet »

Image
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Monkeyfeet »

And off the car:
Image
XantiaTD's(all gone). BXGTi, sold (sob). C5 2.2Hdi SE Exc Hatch. C5 2.2 Estate auto. Xsara Hdi estate. Yam YZF750, Zoom. GSX-S750, mmm.
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Monkeyfeet »

Right now for the text. Hope these pics are of some use, at least the off-the-car shot shows where the vac pipe connects.
I think I've got another on-car shot if needed. Took them when I changed it a couple off months back.
XantiaTD's(all gone). BXGTi, sold (sob). C5 2.2Hdi SE Exc Hatch. C5 2.2 Estate auto. Xsara Hdi estate. Yam YZF750, Zoom. GSX-S750, mmm.
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by cachaciero »

horsedentist wrote:
Gibbo2286 wrote:I'm a bit mystified with your description of the spigot on the servo, there's a picture I put up of the C5 servo in this thread, maybe you can say whereabouts on the picture your spigot is.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 8&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No not there.

If you remove the flexible pipe between the air box and the rigid plastic inlet pipe as shown in your picture beneath that is an electro valve with a black plastic pipe on the top and another on the side lower down the lower one disappears somewhere behind the egr pipe I assume to the swirl valve? The top pipe has a right angled rubber connection and it then goes towards the bulkhead and has a 45 degree kink to the right to take it just behind the lower part of of the servo where it should be attached to some valve or reservoir. It is this attachment which is broken. The plastic pipe should have been in a clip approx halfway along its length but was flapping free so assume someone has had it off for some reason in the past or has accidentally pulled it off breaking the connector. The flexible inlet pipe was attached with a cable tie at the bulkhead end not a jubilee clip so some one has messed about in there.

Eric

Ok folks I now have some pictures

004.JPG
This is the valve in question it sits just behind the left corner of the airbox view from front towards the bulk head and the top pipe is the one that is detached at the other end.
002.JPG
This where it goes behind the servo you can see the blue gasket seal on the side of the servo where I worked it round the corner with a piece of wire. I think that one of the servo pipes shown in your photo (the one in the middle may also go down to this unit) but I will have to move the rigid air intake pipe to get in there to confirm that.
Anyone got any ideas??
That is the swirl valve electrovalve the top curved pipe goes to the vacuum resevoir. Plug the pipe and lock the swirl valves closed car should run just fine.

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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by horsedentist »

Thanks for that guys so the spigot that is broken off is the one on the vacuum reserve so I need to seal the broken spigot effectively in order to see if the swirl diaphragm is the problem.

I purchased a lexia 3 which arrived today so will clear the codes in the morning and see what happens.

Thanks a lot guys.
Eric

Quick update went out this morning just to see if lexia would connect up ok and when I started the car service and engine management light went out after being on for 2 days?
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by horsedentist »

YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAA

Well I resealed the vacuum reserve where the spigot was broken tied the swirl valve back towards the bulkhead and she runs like a dream!!!! went to pompey and back 130 miles no guilt trips because messages on the screen say I am polluting the world lol. No warnings that i am about to skid off the road bliss

Just got to work out how to get a vacuum supply for the swirl valve now and check if it does in fact work or if that is leaking as well.

Thanks for all the input lads great help.

Eric
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Re: C5 2.2 hdi Manual major Vacuum problem.

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I'd say he was happy with his work!
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