More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
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More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
The rear wiper on the Xantia has a bit of history.... I stripped and lubed the gearbox a couple of years ago as it was seized up, which made it work much better. Then I have had odd occasions where it has done it own thing: Rear wiper funnies . However, switched it on the other morning, and nothing. Then I realised that the car had entered BMW/AUDI mode - eg the indicators had stopped working Thought it must be a fuse, and sure enough F28 which supplies the indicators and rear wiper was blown. Fitted a new one and it melted instantly I turned the ignition on Disconnected the rear wiper and it was OK again - so there is a short on the wiper unit somewhere. Took it out yesterday, and then started studying the wiring diagram in the BOL. After about an hour of turning it various ways up and down, and I still can't figure it out - mind you as it suggests that there is a direct short to earth via the gearbox in certain positions, I'm not sure I believe it anyway So.... I presume that there is a fault in the gearbox causing a short as I've locked the motor before when it was seized up and that didn't melt the fuse, going to strip it down one evening this week and have a look, but I could do with a copy of the pukka wiring diagram, ahem, Jim if you are listening.....
As it's out, might as well try and have a look to see if the relay needs repair as per the thread above, or fit a new one - if anyone's got one lying about they'd like to exchange for a few beer tokens Citroen want £30 FFS!!
The wiper arm is also broken - the plastic has split around the shaft, leaving the centre metal boss on the shaft (still got to work out how to pull that off!) - this is the later type which only takes the specific contoured Valeo blade - Citroenmad did you change yours the other way recently - do you want to part with the old wiper arm???? I'm pretty sure I could glue the arm back to the bush, but the Valeo blades are dear (well compared to the flat blades on the front anyway....!)
Of course, removing the wiper leaves a huge hole in the boot door, which will fill up with water. Attempt one with a roofing bolt, penny washer not quite big enough, and some gaffer tape was not successful, so I went back and rifled through the oddments box and turned up a set of toilet seat hinges - a nice big washer fixed on a pin, with a nice rubber washer to suit. Perfect My Xantia is now OFFICIALLY a toilet!!
As it's out, might as well try and have a look to see if the relay needs repair as per the thread above, or fit a new one - if anyone's got one lying about they'd like to exchange for a few beer tokens Citroen want £30 FFS!!
The wiper arm is also broken - the plastic has split around the shaft, leaving the centre metal boss on the shaft (still got to work out how to pull that off!) - this is the later type which only takes the specific contoured Valeo blade - Citroenmad did you change yours the other way recently - do you want to part with the old wiper arm???? I'm pretty sure I could glue the arm back to the bush, but the Valeo blades are dear (well compared to the flat blades on the front anyway....!)
Of course, removing the wiper leaves a huge hole in the boot door, which will fill up with water. Attempt one with a roofing bolt, penny washer not quite big enough, and some gaffer tape was not successful, so I went back and rifled through the oddments box and turned up a set of toilet seat hinges - a nice big washer fixed on a pin, with a nice rubber washer to suit. Perfect My Xantia is now OFFICIALLY a toilet!!
Richard W
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Richard,
What does the relay look like as I have several in the garage?
Kenny
What does the relay look like as I have several in the garage?
Kenny
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Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
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Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Richard, I'll go and dig out the necessary diagrams and have a look...
Jim
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Richard, I've just dug out the diagrams and as far as the circuit is drawn F28 should blow whenever the rear wiper is away from it's parked position
There's a drawing cock-up there or else I just can't work out how the bloody thing works with the parking contacts as drawn so diagrams are not going to be helpful I feel.
My thoughts is that the parking contact set is the likely source of the problem. The only earth in the blue relay is on the end of the electronics and coil so unless the relay has melted it's not going to be that... A good test will be to unplug the relay and if F28 still goes pop then the problem is definitely in the gearbox and most likely the parking contacts...
I'll post up the diagram as-is. That's if I can get my scanning PC to play...
There's a drawing cock-up there or else I just can't work out how the bloody thing works with the parking contacts as drawn so diagrams are not going to be helpful I feel.
My thoughts is that the parking contact set is the likely source of the problem. The only earth in the blue relay is on the end of the electronics and coil so unless the relay has melted it's not going to be that... A good test will be to unplug the relay and if F28 still goes pop then the problem is definitely in the gearbox and most likely the parking contacts...
I'll post up the diagram as-is. That's if I can get my scanning PC to play...
Jim
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Jim
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Cheers Jim, that's the same diagram the BOL, and I came to the same conclusion - internals of the gearbox must be drawn wrong! External wiring on the unit checks out as per the diagram, so no idea what's in the gearbox. If I can get the collar off the shaft I'll have a look out of curiosity. Just opened up the relay though and evidence of it having been wet inside - cleaned the fur off the PCB, and it measures 350 ohms power to earth on the plug so it shouldn't pop the fuse. Will plug it back in and see what happens. Trying to remember if it had been wet up to the point where it failed - think it probably had, but then it's been raining for most of the last 6 months, so it's a fair assumption! Some sealant required on it when it does go back together.
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Richard,
I've been in the garage and dug out 2 blue relays which are the same configuration
Cartier make numbers on relay are as follows 12V - 739229 9753498780-00
I think are the rear wiper relay.
Kenny
I've been in the garage and dug out 2 blue relays which are the same configuration
Cartier make numbers on relay are as follows 12V - 739229 9753498780-00
I think are the rear wiper relay.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Thanks Kenny - I'll have a look later. The relay has 6 pins, and one in the corner is much smaller than the others.
Richard W
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Richard,
They would appear to be the rights ones.
I have 2 relays with that configuration
Kenny
They would appear to be the rights ones.
I have 2 relays with that configuration
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Richard, just a quick thought.
Have you checked the wiring to the rear wiper motor? I had similar issues on the estate. Turned out to be broken wires in the harness up by the grommet betwixt body and rear hatch. Once sorted and repaired, after testing, normal operation ensued.
H
Have you checked the wiring to the rear wiper motor? I had similar issues on the estate. Turned out to be broken wires in the harness up by the grommet betwixt body and rear hatch. Once sorted and repaired, after testing, normal operation ensued.
H
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Put it back on the other day, it parked itself, then pfft fuse went again. Took the relay out, no difference - pffft fuse gone again. Took it back off, and now showing dead short power to earth. Progress of sorts! Stripped the gearbox down tonight, and found the fault I think The wiring diagram is wrong - the centre wire going to the relay is common, and is either connected to power (to park it) or earth (presumably to give it equal potential across all parts to make sure it doesn't move on its own when not required). There is a copper disc on the back of the gear wheel that makes the connections, and power is transferred onto / off this via three wiper blades - and this is where the problem is - the end has broken off the main power feed thus putting it out of position and allowing both power and earth to be connected at the same time, hence blowing the fuse! I suspect this is also why it wasn't running smoothly when on self park, rather than switched on. Surprisingly I managed to tin the blade, so then cut a bit of copper, shaped it as a new blade and soldered it on. Putting the wheel in different positions, I can't get a short to earth. Result! Just got to put it back together (it has shipped rather a lot of water and is pretty manky inside again....) then refit it. Oh, and glue the wiper arm itself back together Pic below, you can see the replaced wiper in the centre, and the gear wheel to the right, showing the copper disc - hole in the centre ring for power off at park, and the tag on the outside is picked up by the outer earth tab.
Richard W
Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Well done Richard - I suspect you're surprised that you've managed to repair it
Hopefully the soldering will fix it. I guess the shape of the new bit of copper is quite critical as this affects where it engages (or not) with the circular track. Hopefully no more shorts. Always satisfying to have fixed something that seems at first to be beyond repair.
Hopefully the soldering will fix it. I guess the shape of the new bit of copper is quite critical as this affects where it engages (or not) with the circular track. Hopefully no more shorts. Always satisfying to have fixed something that seems at first to be beyond repair.
Martin
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Well done indeed Richard
Always a good feeling when you repair the unrepairable
Always a good feeling when you repair the unrepairable
Jim
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
Is that why you like 4HP20's so much Jim?
Simon
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Re: More Xantia rear wiper shennaigans...
To be honest Simon, I get a big kick out of making anything that is superficially sealed for life, nominally not repairable or 'no user serviceable parts inside' work again...Mandrake wrote:Is that why you like 4HP20's so much Jim?
It is incredibly satisfying to make these things work again. It's like throwing down a gauntlet to me...
Jim
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