replacement xantia required. Advice please.

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Northern_Mike

Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Northern_Mike »

Spaces wrote:
Mandrake wrote:
The 205/60 was significantly wider but also slightly taller, grip and handling was far better but ride was actually better than the original tyres too. No real downside that I could see except cost, which was offset by the fact that the larger tyre lasted a lot longer as the rubber wasn't being pushed as close to its adhesion limits (less scuffing and slipping) as it would have been on the smaller tyres...
Everything you say is right, Mandrake - this bit: "better ride comes from taller sidewalls not narrower contact patch" I agree with totally, I'm not suggesting anywhere that a narrower patch makes for a better ride. In fact, the better ride with 205/60s over 185/65s comes from not just a taller sidewall
Pardon?
Northern_Mike

Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Northern_Mike »

Spaces wrote:
By the way, Harrogate is hardly remote. I take it you have read my post on the GS section?
Funny how none of the visitors to the UK that come to visit me, and bear in mind I have family all over the world who come here, have ever wanted to go there. Everyone I know who comes to the UK wants to go to London. Not a damp spa town in North Yorks..

I'm a Northerner, but even I can see the folly of holding such an event in Harrogate. Yes, I've been there many times, Yes, I know all about it.. but it's not London. It's not even Birmingham!
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Spaces »

Mike, the "it's not even Birmingham" bit has to be tongue-in-cheek, shirley? Why on earth would you hold a car rally near there for all Europeans to drive to? It's wetter on average than York in August, well over an hour more to the nearest port and either mono-cultural theme-park England - 'Shakespeare country' - which many Europeans avoid or an ugly conglomeration of buildings and motorways.

How many foreign-registered tourist cars do you see trickling around the M25 on their way to the more beautiful parts of these islands? London and the South-East is a massive go-slow zone of pollution where you live if you have to - French, Belgians, Dutch, Germans and our other Eurofriends seem to avoid Dover like the plague - Hull appears their favourite point of entry, from which the York-Harrogate-Leeds triangle is less than 90 minutes on the road. All of those I spoke to who had crossed the North Sea were very impressed that 'your little Eenglander club members didn't choose the same old area for the gathering' or words to that effect. They seemed very happy that so many varied and different landscapes (cultural, architectural as well as physical) from their own were within a couple of hours' drive - for a change.

Of course if you're from the wrong side of the Pennines I understand your prejudice with Yorkshire and believing all of the North is damp and grim... and I really can't say anything about the quality of your visitors :-D
PeterN: "Honest John's forum put the last nail in the coffin of owning a 2000- car. Many were still servicable, but CR, DMFs and needing fault codes read because your horn doesn't work - no thanks. All my life I have generally understood cars - until now."
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by DickieG »

Spaces wrote:Is this a London area/rest of the UK communication/understanding problem or are you genuinely able to turn something straightforwards and honest on its head and make it sound vaguely plausible?!
Err hello, is there any danger of you answering my question of how changing from 205/60R15 tyres to 195/65R15 improves the ride quality because as I previously mentioned the sidewalls on these tyres are the same height?
Spaces wrote:I wonder what profession you work in?
More to the point what profession do you work in, rocket science or waxing lyrical about nonsense?
Spaces wrote:Dickie, I am stating a simple physical fact. Pressure=mass/area. I'm not trying to be misleading. When I stated higher pressure means a smaller contact patch I was demonstrating something which actually does alter the size of this contact - having stated it is not tyre width, ceteris paribus.
But as I mentioned earlier your statement is misleading, you are attempting to prove a point for your own purposes, surely even you can see and prove that a wider tyre running at the correct pressure does put more rubber on the road, does it not?
Spaces wrote:Prejudice comes in many forms, Dickie, and I'm not prejudiced against anyone or anything - except perhaps wilful ignorance. Not even those who can't do simple sums. I write my own findings on here for the benefit of all to consume, digest and make what they want of it - but what I write is accurate. If I lived amidst a sea of roundabouts and smooth, level roads where there was little standing water, I wouldn't deviate from the wider, lower profile tyres. That I do, suggests I don't.

By the way, Harrogate is hardly remote. I take it you have read my post on the GS section?
Oh I did and I laughed for such a long time long I couldn't be bothered to respond :lol:

Something I've observed from yourself is that you take a rather unpleasant tone by suggesting that anyone who dares to challenge your flawed thinking must be thick, that's not on in my books [-X

One last plea, please explain this 195/65 smooth ride malarky because I must be even thicker than I thought as I just can't see it, either that or your reply is written in invisible ink.
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Northern_Mike

Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Northern_Mike »

Spaces wrote:Mike, the "it's not even Birmingham" bit has to be tongue-in-cheek, shirley? Why on earth would you hold a car rally near there for all Europeans to drive to? It's wetter on average than York in August, well over an hour more to the nearest port and either mono-cultural theme-park England - 'Shakespeare country' - which many Europeans avoid or an ugly conglomeration of buildings and motorways.

How many foreign-registered tourist cars do you see trickling around the M25 on their way to the more beautiful parts of these islands? London and the South-East is a massive go-slow zone of pollution where you live if you have to - French, Belgians, Dutch, Germans and our other Eurofriends seem to avoid Dover like the plague - Hull appears their favourite point of entry, from which the York-Harrogate-Leeds triangle is less than 90 minutes on the road. All of those I spoke to who had crossed the North Sea were very impressed that 'your little Eenglander club members didn't choose the same old area for the gathering' or words to that effect. They seemed very happy that so many varied and different landscapes (cultural, architectural as well as physical) from their own were within a couple of hours' drive - for a change.

Of course if you're from the wrong side of the Pennines I understand your prejudice with Yorkshire and believing all of the North is damp and grim... and I really can't say anything about the quality of your visitors :-D
Are your replies always this snotty and factually incorrect?
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Spaces »

Rattiva_Mike wrote:
Are your replies always this snotty and factually incorrect?
You've misread my tone, something which can happen on forums, certainly the last sentence was meant to be read with some sense of humour working - I'm sorry if it was taken seriously. Maybe I used the wrong smiley? Not sure if you had anything personal going on with the ICCCR organisers which added to some of your vitriol in this forum over the whole event - but I for one will stand up for an event in the North of England especially when it is attended by so many Europeans.
PeterN: "Honest John's forum put the last nail in the coffin of owning a 2000- car. Many were still servicable, but CR, DMFs and needing fault codes read because your horn doesn't work - no thanks. All my life I have generally understood cars - until now."
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Spaces »

DickieG, I'll just cut to the facts.

1/ 195/65/15 sidewalls are taller than the 205/60's. Simple maths. Can't be much clearer on that. The ride improves a little because of this, because the fact the tyre has a slightly larger rolling diameter and with a taller, narrower tyre the sidewall distorts a little more to maintain the contact patch area. The contact patch is slightly longer and thinner which suits my driving and the roads round me.

2/ The simple laws which dictate how much of a tyre's tread is contact with the ground are not some personal belief or some axe to grind, I am simply stating fact. It may be difficult to believe something which goes against the way we've thought (assumed) for many years - I found it a challenge until I thought long and hard - but there we have it. Using the laws of physics, wider tyres do not mean more rubber on the road, if pressures and load are the same.
you are attempting to prove a point for your own purposes, surely even you can see and prove that a wider tyre running at the correct pressure does put more rubber on the road, does it not?
That's as close as you came to discussing anything - it would be good if you or anyone else came up with a coherent discussion explaining how this can not be true, rather than simply stating I am obviously bringing this up for some sort of personal gain!
PeterN: "Honest John's forum put the last nail in the coffin of owning a 2000- car. Many were still servicable, but CR, DMFs and needing fault codes read because your horn doesn't work - no thanks. All my life I have generally understood cars - until now."
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by isisalar »

As the OP here I must say that the way this has degenerated into a pointless argument about tyre sizes/profiles, north south divides, if sunroofs are a good idea or not, hydractive vs non, digs about some car club event, and the pro's and cons of anti roll bars, whilst quite amusing at first has now become a bit boring and not that helpful.
I'm going to start a no 2 thread later on to try and get some of the answers I was looking for.
Thanks to all who have responded especially lurchy666 and dickie g who have let me know that an hdi estate with a sunroof is not an impossibility.
Kind regards
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Northern_Mike

Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Northern_Mike »

superloopy wrote:Cool it chaps ... I too am a 'northerner' but am finding the tone of this thread, whether factual or not, to be more than combative in a north v south manner. Spaces, do any of your points matter in the context of a French car forum? If so then restate them succinctly and without, as I perceive rightly or wrongly as I do not know of your background, any degree of arrogance. Unfortunately this is how your posts are coming across to me and I must admit i can't be bothered reading any further posts until the tone changes. No doubt you'll say this is my loss ...
I'm a Northerner. I love the North. However, to say North Yorkshire is a brilliant place to hold an international event, and that Hull/Leeds/York/Harrogate represent all that is great about England is incorrect.

Why have I moved down South? Well, when I moved back from Greece 18 years ago, all my friends lived in the South East. I came down for a weekend and never left.
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by DickieG »

Spaces wrote:DickieG, I'll just cut to the facts.

1/ 195/65/15 sidewalls are taller than the 205/60's. Simple maths. Can't be much clearer on that. The ride improves a little because of this, because the fact the tyre has a slightly larger rolling diameter and with a taller, narrower tyre the sidewall distorts a little more to maintain the contact patch area. The contact patch is slightly longer and thinner which suits my driving and the roads round me.
Hmm facts such as the difference in the tyre diameter between a 205/60R15 and a 195/65R15 a total difference of 7mm which means that the 195 tyre sidewall is 3.5mm taller, are you seriously trying to argue your point in this debate on the issue of that 3.5mm which incidentally is less half of the depth of tread on a new tyre, oh come on join planet earth and be reasonable. When you fitted the 195 tyres were you comparing them with new or worn down 205 tyres as new tyres with deeper tread will compress more than worn tyres, did you also adjust tyre pressures accordingly and the gauge you used to check the pressure had it been calibrated recently? You really are stretching the imagination of any reasonable person looking at the logic (or lack of it) in your argument.

Oh please reveal what particular driving style you have that demands an additional 3.5mm taller sidewall? Christ almighty I really can't believe I'm asking this question :lol:
Spaces wrote:2/ The simple laws which dictate how much of a tyre's tread is contact with the ground are not some personal belief or some axe to grind, I am simply stating fact. It may be difficult to believe something which goes against the way we've thought (assumed) for many years - I found it a challenge until I thought long and hard - but there we have it. Using the laws of physics, wider tyres do not mean more rubber on the road, if pressures and load are the same.
"If pressures and load remain the same" my point entirely, different tyres demand different pressures as is recommended by car and tyre manufacturers. Your argument is based upon such a limited example I take it you're a Member of Parliament, using such limited facts and statistics in an effort to prove a point renders your argument as pretty irrelevant to any reasoned thinking person who isn't baffled by bovine defecation.
Spaces wrote:That's as close as you came to discussing anything - it would be good if you or anyone else came up with a coherent discussion explaining how this can not be true, rather than simply stating I am obviously bringing this up for some sort of personal gain!
Suggesting that the other person in a debate is either too stupid to understand the issue by attempting to ridicule them or bully them into submission is the oldest and most worn out trick in the book, in fact its so old I don't think its made publication for the past 50 years :roll:

Spaces, your posts strongly suggest to me that the term "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and/or "self appointed expert" can be applied to yourself.

I will say no more on the issue, apologies to isisalar :oops:
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Northern_Mike

Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by Northern_Mike »

Spaces wrote:
Rattiva_Mike wrote:
Are your replies always this snotty and factually incorrect?
You've misread my tone, something which can happen on forums, certainly the last sentence was meant to be read with some sense of humour working - I'm sorry if it was taken seriously. Maybe I used the wrong smiley? Not sure if you had anything personal going on with the ICCCR organisers which added to some of your vitriol in this forum over the whole event - but I for one will stand up for an event in the North of England especially when it is attended by so many Europeans.
Why on Earth would I have anything personal with the organisers? I don't even know who they are. I believe the event was a success, so well done to them. However, it would have been better attended were it held elsewhere. North Yorkshire, however much you wish it to, does not represent all that is great about Britain.

I'm saying no more.

Apologies to Paul for the thread hijacking :oops:
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by myglaren »

superloopy wrote:Mods: this thread needs to be closed ... ASAP.
Disagree Mike.

As long as it doesn't deteriorate into an argument it is just an exchange of views.
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Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please.

Post by andmcit »

In the narrow context of what has been covered in the past page or so, a wider audience would be able to
contribute views on the subject were it in a thread specifically titled whereas Paul originally intended it to
be a sounding box foe what is feasible in terms of a replacement car for his VSX. I don't mind reading hijacked
threads and am probably guilty of causing some occasionally too, although I see the current emphasis is 'wasted'
here currently: a thread titled options on differences in tyre profiles etc could potentially bring in a wider
auduence / contributors!

Ultimately, it seems the original question was answered a while ago, ergo SX TD HDi 110 BHP estate
with a sunroof - just finding one may be challenging!!
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