My Xantia - some questions from a Citroën newbie

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PhillipD
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My Xantia - some questions from a Citroën newbie

Post by PhillipD »

Hello,
I have now had my Xantia for 18 months. It's a 1997 1.8i 16V Desire with 40,000 miles on the clock. It is definitely one of the best cars I've had so far - but I have spent more on it than any car I've had! I have some questions...
The 40,000 service cost me £660, and that was <b>after</b> they took off 10% for good will <b>and</b> took £600 off for the warranty. I can't exactly quite remember what they did but it did involve new brakes at the front, new spheres and lots of other things. Is this normal? Could I expect a similar bill on the next service?
The Dipstick Warning Light gets on my nerves! I park on the kerb therefore meaning that one side of the car is higher than the other - would this cause the dipstick light to come on even though the oil is full? I only checked my oil on Monday and it was slap bang on the maximum mark (I check at work where the ground is flat), but when I switched off the engine last night I noticed my window was down so I switched the engine back on and the dipstick light came on! However, 30 seconds later it didn't come on at all.
Also does using Air Conditioning use Oil? I've noticed that if I do over 40,000RPM (or approx 80mph on a Motorway) for any period of time the oil goes down by a quarter (and therefore causes the Dipstick light to flash!). I always have a bottle of oil in the boot!
And finally... a small problem in that the lever for the Car Height doesn't appear to match the markings on the casings. So when it's on Normal the line on the lever is about a quarter inch down from the marking on the casing - towards the flat on the floor end as opposed to the up in the sky end. Is this cause for concern? (Does it mean it won't go as high as it should?)
Thanks
Phillip.
kafkaian
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Post by kafkaian »

My goodness. These stories seem ever typical. I'll leave the technical stuff to our main men but my advice to you would be: Stick firm with this forum, listen to any advice offered (which is often corroborated by two or more people), try to do some of the things yourself and be prepared to save lots of money. The general consensus on this site appears to conclude that warranty servicing of a 97 model is a waste of money. As for the spheres, I was told that they have an average working life of 70k or so (like when they start to go) dependant on usage. The charges you have endured, are quite frankly, and IMHO, disgraceful. From my experience, I would also check to see if they have actually done the work. Sorry if anyone disagrees with this, but this is my experience.
rory_perrett
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Post by rory_perrett »

Certainly wouldn't expect a similar bill next time.
Brakes - front pads and possibly discs at 40k sounds not that unusual.
Spheres - deterioration is both mileage and time related again if its the first set on a 6 year old car not unexpected even with your relatively low mileage.
Rory
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Post by kafkaian »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rory_perrett</i>

Certainly wouldn't expect a similar bill next time.
Brakes - front pads and possibly discs at 40k sounds not that unusual.
Spheres - deterioration is both mileage and time related again if its the first set on a 6 year old car not unexpected even with your relatively low mileage.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<font size="2">I have to baulk under the weight of a GBP600 bill though[:(], and that after knocking another 600 off apparently[:0]. I remain ignorant as to what else they "did" but it only takes 10 minutes to do the front spheres (at 20 quid each) and 45 minutes max to do the front brakes (pads and disks). As for the rear spheres, if you know what you're doing with a cold chisel or have the right tool, again a simple job for a garage. I have to say though, a Citroën dealership wanted GBP500 to do my suspension and I refused to pay that on a 97 model. Doing it myself cost a mere GBP90 plus a few minor extras. Okay so it was little distressing doing it for the first time (showing the job too much respect coupled with HP inexperience), but I got there in the end with the aid of some wonderful advice from this forum. Personally I don't think the garage sums quoted are reasonable on cars which have a euphemistic resale value.</font id="size2">
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi Phillip -
As for the service bills - I can only say that whatever brand of car you own - large service bills are to be expected when the car ages.
That's the "devil" with "economy" second hand cars.
Being a car owner since '74 - it's my experience you pay for a car in 3 ways :
1) New car - moderate downpay - montly rates for ever - regular moderate service bills. Allways an eye on trade-in value & service costs to decide WHEN.
2) Second hand car - moderate cash price payed - no monthly rates - huge service bills to be expected - allways "what's next ?" fearing.
3) Second hand bargain - low cash payed (even free !) - no montly rates - at least first 6 months with regular dirty hands going over the car everywhere to find & rectify all possible service issues as DIY. HUGE savings - HUGE time spent in your garage with tools & dirty hands on your car & the breaker yards owners near you as good friends - but you know your car !
Which option have YOU choosed ?
Now to the facts :
No matter WHAT car (new or old) you own - ALLWAYS check the engine oil by the dipstick at each fuel filling. Make it a backbone job every gasstation visit - like checking fluids, tyre inflation & lights function.
Best insurance you can get on earth - free [:p]
REMEMBER : no electronic warning gadget is better than the cabling to the warning lamp - or the warning lamp bulb filament itself [;)]
Long time - no warnings - and suddenly a serious (costly) breakdown.
A/C does not use oil.
At 40,000rpm though - I'd expect ANY engine to use quite a bit of oil [:p][:p]
- sorry - of course you meant 4,000rpm.
Have the oil CHECKED. Unfortunately it's known that some garages does NOT bother replacing the oil - they simply top it up - meaning you're constantly running on old non-efficient engine oil.
Also check the external look of the oil filter can - does it look like it came off the shelf newly ?
Or is it dirty/rusty on exterior - telling you a tale ?
The oil consumption on any engine depends largely on how the engine has been treated in regards to previous service & usage.
If your engine has been trashed without regular oil services - abnormal wear & oil consumption is the in-evitable results.
This can in many instances be rectified somewhat using a higher viscosity grade oil type (i.e. 10W-40 or 15W-40 instead of 5W-40).
Oil additives is generally a no-no option - but I must admit that using a tephlone based additive worked wonders in a couple of instants on badly worn engines I had.
It's common the height control lever postions does not match exactly the markings on the center console plastic box - usually this can be rectified by loosening the center console box and reseat it in it's fixing bolts.
As long as the lever clearly seats in it's notches - it should be allright.
RichardW
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Post by RichardW »

Here's a thought... Some cars do not like being filled to the top, and blow oil out past seals, rings etc until they find their natural level. Next time it drops a bit after a run, don't put any more in (as long as it's still within the range!) keep driving it (and keep an eye on the level!) you may find it levels out at about 1/2 way between the 2 marks after a while and stops going down. No doubt in the hand book it says "...oil consumption may reach 1l / 600 miles.." which is Citroen's (and every other manufacturer's) get out clause for oil thirsty engines.
Be interested to know exactly what was replaced for more than I paid for my N reg TD....!!
Anders - at school I got involved a bit with model aircraft, and there was some discussion about "Ducted fan" planes - ones made to look like a jet by using a recip engine inside a duct driving a fan. Trouble was they couldn't be silenced so were noisy as anything. However, the conversation went along the lines of "Well, it's alright because they do around 80,000 rpm at the moment, and in a few years will be past 100,000 rpm, by which time they will be out of the range of human hearing."!!! Imagine the stress on that small con rod at 100,000 rpm. No, actually, I'd rather not!
RichardW
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Model Aircrafts [8D][8D]
Still have 3 in my attick - from my 8y's time in the RDAF in the '70-es.
Smaller the engine - the higher rev's [:)]
Still have a tiny PeeWee engine - some working 24,000revs [}:)]
The larger 2.5cc engines runs at 12,000-15,000 revs - 18,000max when tuned with a tighter head.
For some reasons - no matter what you do - the sound from these screamers allways hits where your hearing is most sensitive [:D][:D]
- well - had to buy accessory mufflers for flying at club areas - legislation - but sensible. No fun being neighbours to such activities.
Had a mate who did a model F16 with the ducted fan - very impressive looking - also when flying - but not at the "real" speed of course.
Bought the whole when attending a F16 training course in Texas - was very disappointed when back. Local prices here for model R/C Aircraft bits are insane.
Guess this is WAY off-topic [:I]
Jon

Post by Jon »

Yep, you're off topic!
We don't mind though.
[:D][:p]
mijyou
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Post by mijyou »

I do a 100 mile motorway trip to work daily.
My oil also goes down when i do a constant 80mph but does not move when i keep it at 70mph.
I can see there is some oil dampness on the bottom back left hand side of the engine when looking from the front.
Anybody know why this would happen at 80mph and not 70?
Jim
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Post by marco1 »

sorry mate you have been well and truly ripped off,ive a 97 2.0 16v a/c sx they are only worth about£1000 and mines in a lovely condition...done all sphears £90 oil semi synthetic,filters plugs ...£20 just come back from south of france 2000round trip cruising 80/100 mph oil on bipstik droped about 2/3mm !!!my cars done 105,000 miles i think youve got a prob with yours, next time do your own service bar the cambelt you dont have to do much to these cars oil/filter each year they will go on for years no probs....
kafkaian
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Post by kafkaian »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by marco1</i>

sorry mate you have been well and truly ripped off,ive a 97 2.0 16v a/c sx they are only worth about£1000 and mines in a lovely condition...done all sphears £90 oil semi synthetic,filters plugs ...£20 just come back from south of france 2000round trip cruising 80/100 mph oil on bipstik droped about 2/3mm !!!my cars done 105,000 miles i think youve got a prob with yours, next time do your own service bar the cambelt you dont have to do much to these cars oil/filter each year they will go on for years no probs....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"><font size="2">That's the spirit Marco - can't agree more, except that I am going to have a go at my cam belt in the next few weeks. Just £30 quid or so for a new DAYCO belt and water pump (replacing regardless of condition) from the godsend that is GSF. Where else?</font id="size2">
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Post by Homer »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PhillipD</i>

The Dipstick Warning Light gets on my nerves! I park on the kerb therefore meaning that one side of the car is higher than the other - would this cause the dipstick light to come on even though the oil is full? I only checked my oil on Monday and it was slap bang on the maximum mark (I check at work where the ground is flat), but when I switched off the engine last night I noticed my window was down so I switched the engine back on and the dipstick light came on! However, 30 seconds later it didn't come on at all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Just a note on this. I have found the oil level light to be very picky on both my Xantias. If you restart the engine after running it then it almost always comes on if the car is anything but dead level. I put it down to oil not having drained back to the sump.
As someone else said, there is no substitute for checking with the dipstick.
You don't say if you used a Citroen dealer for the service. My advice would be to find an independant specialist if you don't fancy going the DIY route. If that was an independant then it may be an idea to find another.
pwatson
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Post by pwatson »

PhilipD
Surely you got a bill for £1300 worth of work done so that you could say what it involved? We have had 2 Xantias, one did 90k before we sold it and the other has done nearly 70k yet we haven't spent anything like that in the whole time we've had them.
Would be interested in knowing exactly what had to be done to yours after only 40k - and who did the work!
lhm_leak
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Post by lhm_leak »

About the Oil level warning lamp...
Both my Xantias seem to be very quick to flash this at me - usually when warm starting. Having lived with it for a couple of years with the 2.0i 8V petrol one, I get a 1.9TD and what do you know, flashing yellow light time. As a previous poster said, the only sure way of knowing your oil level is to check the dipstick - the dashboard warning system is not reliable. In fact, when I finally get round to removing the instrument panel on the TD (always something comes up to steal my time...) I'll probably remove the bulb - it's THAT irritating. Finally, the manual says that this lamp should only flash for (I think) 15 seconds before extinguishing. And that's long enough to get on MY nerves.[}:)]
Stu
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