xantia hydraulic problem
Moderator: RichardW
xantia hydraulic problem
I have an citroen 1993 Xantia 2.0i VSX with hydractive. (and without anti sink)
I have a problem with the hydraulics.
When i start up in the morning it rises somewhat slowly,(about 20 seconds). When I start up, and drive for a minute or two the suspension stiffens and the car sinks down, and the red STOP light comes on. (it seems that both the front end and the rear end sinks)
What I have done to the car is this:
Changed to hydraurincage and drove with it for 1000km.
Changed back to new LHM plus, cleaned the hydraulic tank and filters.
Changed hydraulic pump.
Checked main accumulator pressure (55 bar)
there are no external leaks.
Any suggestion on how i can find the error? tests i can do to eliminate components? What could be causing this problem?
I have been to a Citroen dealer twice, and they haven’t found out what is wrong.
It seems as:
-there is an internal leak somewhere?
-faulty, stuck, partially stuck or worn valve?
-or perhaps i have ruined the pump during assembly?
-other?
To sum it up:
-Car rises normally at start up
-After 1 km or so the car starts to drop.
-It sinks all the way down to the lowest setting(STOP light is on, suspension stiffening as it drops)
-If I stop and wait some time with the engine at idle it raises slowly(40 sec), BUT if I stop the engine and then start it up, it raises immediately(5 sec). (strange…maybe it is a valve that is de-energized when i turn the ignition off?)
-the pump starts every 9 seconds or so.
-when it is in normal height, the car feels soft, and all 4 suspension spheres were changed about two years ago.
-the pump has one pressure outlet
any help greatly appreciated
Mads
I have a problem with the hydraulics.
When i start up in the morning it rises somewhat slowly,(about 20 seconds). When I start up, and drive for a minute or two the suspension stiffens and the car sinks down, and the red STOP light comes on. (it seems that both the front end and the rear end sinks)
What I have done to the car is this:
Changed to hydraurincage and drove with it for 1000km.
Changed back to new LHM plus, cleaned the hydraulic tank and filters.
Changed hydraulic pump.
Checked main accumulator pressure (55 bar)
there are no external leaks.
Any suggestion on how i can find the error? tests i can do to eliminate components? What could be causing this problem?
I have been to a Citroen dealer twice, and they haven’t found out what is wrong.
It seems as:
-there is an internal leak somewhere?
-faulty, stuck, partially stuck or worn valve?
-or perhaps i have ruined the pump during assembly?
-other?
To sum it up:
-Car rises normally at start up
-After 1 km or so the car starts to drop.
-It sinks all the way down to the lowest setting(STOP light is on, suspension stiffening as it drops)
-If I stop and wait some time with the engine at idle it raises slowly(40 sec), BUT if I stop the engine and then start it up, it raises immediately(5 sec). (strange…maybe it is a valve that is de-energized when i turn the ignition off?)
-the pump starts every 9 seconds or so.
-when it is in normal height, the car feels soft, and all 4 suspension spheres were changed about two years ago.
-the pump has one pressure outlet
any help greatly appreciated
Mads
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Difficult to say with hydractive whats going on, but try this.
On a few future occasions when the symptoms re-appear, back off the throttle and let the engine overrun, leave it in gear and don't dissengage the clutch, switch the ignition off for a few seconds and then back on, if it goes back to normal then I think its going to be some kind of electrovalve fault or the hydractive ECU at fault.
If it makes no difference and the engine has to actually stop turning before the symptoms dissapear, then I would think there was a problem with the flow distributor valve or the hydraulic pressure regulator.
You might also try switching between suspension modes using the hydractive switch in front of the height lever to see if there are any changes to the symptoms.
It goes without saying that switching the ignition off while the vehicle is in motion is not normally recomended and if you do, you do so at your own risk, but on a quiet stretch of road should not pose any danger.
By doing this there is a good chance it will reveal wether the fault is purely mechanical or electrical, I hope you can see what I'm driving at by suggesting it.
If you find something that restores the situation you must try to replacate it and not set out on a course of remedy at the first indication, that could prove wastefully expensive.
Dave
On a few future occasions when the symptoms re-appear, back off the throttle and let the engine overrun, leave it in gear and don't dissengage the clutch, switch the ignition off for a few seconds and then back on, if it goes back to normal then I think its going to be some kind of electrovalve fault or the hydractive ECU at fault.
If it makes no difference and the engine has to actually stop turning before the symptoms dissapear, then I would think there was a problem with the flow distributor valve or the hydraulic pressure regulator.
You might also try switching between suspension modes using the hydractive switch in front of the height lever to see if there are any changes to the symptoms.
It goes without saying that switching the ignition off while the vehicle is in motion is not normally recomended and if you do, you do so at your own risk, but on a quiet stretch of road should not pose any danger.
By doing this there is a good chance it will reveal wether the fault is purely mechanical or electrical, I hope you can see what I'm driving at by suggesting it.
If you find something that restores the situation you must try to replacate it and not set out on a course of remedy at the first indication, that could prove wastefully expensive.
Dave
I will try your suggestion, but when I was at the citroen dealer they checked the hydractive ECU, and it was OK, apart from an error code at the steering sensor.(they deleted the error code and said it was no problem. )
I have tried switching between soft/ hard mode on the hydractive. but there is no difference.
thanks
Mads
I have tried switching between soft/ hard mode on the hydractive. but there is no difference.
thanks
Mads
What happens to the power steering as the hydraulic pressure drains away? Does it keep working or does the steering get stiffer?
When it sinks does it start front or back first or both at the same time?
This must be pretty unnerving as you'd be losing you brakes too.
Any other symptoms you can describe would also help the remote diagnosis.
Ken W
When it sinks does it start front or back first or both at the same time?
This must be pretty unnerving as you'd be losing you brakes too.
Any other symptoms you can describe would also help the remote diagnosis.
Ken W
The power steering feels the same as it sinks down.
but the power steering is sometimes sluggish at low revs.
it seems to sink faster/more at the back, but i have measured with a ruler and it sinks at the the front too. (perhaps i will measure it more accurately today)
the problem seems to be temperature-dependent. when I have driven for a while it gets somewhat better (but not good).
When i apply the brakes it also affects the problem, sometimes the STOP lights switch off when i apply brakes.
I have eliminated the following components as the cause (I think).
main accumulator
suspension cylinders
I think the problem lies in one of the following components
hydraulic pump
feed hose to pump
flow distributor valve
pressure regulator
brake valve
power steering component?
some hydractive valve
other faulty valve
faulty hydractive sensor
Thanks for your help
Mads
but the power steering is sometimes sluggish at low revs.
it seems to sink faster/more at the back, but i have measured with a ruler and it sinks at the the front too. (perhaps i will measure it more accurately today)
the problem seems to be temperature-dependent. when I have driven for a while it gets somewhat better (but not good).
When i apply the brakes it also affects the problem, sometimes the STOP lights switch off when i apply brakes.
I have eliminated the following components as the cause (I think).
main accumulator
suspension cylinders
I think the problem lies in one of the following components
hydraulic pump
feed hose to pump
flow distributor valve
pressure regulator
brake valve
power steering component?
some hydractive valve
other faulty valve
faulty hydractive sensor
Thanks for your help
Mads
Mads -
May I suggest you download this document :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide.html
Here you can read about the functional aspects - and from there you may save more needless parts swapping/expenses.
May I suggest you download this document :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide.html
Here you can read about the functional aspects - and from there you may save more needless parts swapping/expenses.
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Sounds to me like a problem with the security valve cutting the pressure to the suspension. The valve exists so that in the event of a pump failiure the pressure in the suspension can be used to provide additional pressure to the brakes. I believe it also activates the STOP light.
It would seem that on your car the valve is operating far too soon. Unfortuately the only way I would think this could be tested is to swap the valve for a new one.
It would seem that on your car the valve is operating far too soon. Unfortuately the only way I would think this could be tested is to swap the valve for a new one.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mbjornen</i>
citroen dealer <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And what would they know about Xantia hydraulics?[:p]
I would find a local independant Citroen specialist, they will charge a lot less and have more experience with cars of that age.
citroen dealer <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And what would they know about Xantia hydraulics?[:p]
I would find a local independant Citroen specialist, they will charge a lot less and have more experience with cars of that age.
I live in Norway, and unfortunately i don't know of any citroen hydraulic specialist [:(] .
so if my citroen dealer can't figure out whats wrong. I will swap
components in the following order:
feed pipe to pump
security valve (its not so expensive)
flow distributor valve
pressure regulator
brake valve
does this list look reasonable?
BTW. does any one know where to find a proper hydraulic schematic drawing of the xantia?
Mads
so if my citroen dealer can't figure out whats wrong. I will swap
components in the following order:
feed pipe to pump
security valve (its not so expensive)
flow distributor valve
pressure regulator
brake valve
does this list look reasonable?
BTW. does any one know where to find a proper hydraulic schematic drawing of the xantia?
Mads
For a good explanation of all Citroen hydraulics including all the various manifestations of hydractive have a look at this site.
http://citroen2.triger.com.pl/kc/pdf/citguide.pdf
I've looked at your problems and wonder if they are similar to those I had on my BX. When I got it I was horrified to find the light came on at 70 MPH in cool weather. The power steering didn't work either but at the time I could live with that, but after some deliberation I changed the pump and all seemed well until it warmed up and the light would come on when idling sometimes. I was not happy with the situationbut a change of doseur, regulator, re-seating the non-return valve, rebuild of flow diverter made no difference. By this time the light was coming on most of the time after about 2 miles and would generally go off if I revved the engine (usually changing down a gear.) The light would only go out and the car rise unless I held the steering wheel so as to close the pinion valve, and the ride was poor at times suggesting the car was riding low.
By chance I removed the ball valve in the original (by now replaced) diverter and found that it had been assembled incorrectly with the ball support the wrong side of the ball so that it was functioning as the valve itself. I re-assembled it correctly and replaced it on the car - and I've not seen the light since - rises properly . . . .
So - to go to your list -
Pump hose - replace it - it may have an effect but I would have thought you would have seen some evidence of air if you looked into the reservoir, particularily with the bleed valve on the regulator open. (assuming the circuit has not been broken recently.
safety valve - really rather a nice component that doesn't seem to give trouble. Its operation of the warning light is direct from the slide valve and from the diagram its dificult to see what can go wrong apart from external (or excessive internal)leakage.
Regulator - if the ticking is normal its probably ok. If the flow diverter is not allowing sufficient pressure to the rest of the circuit I would expect some change in the ticking characeristics but cant recall any on my own car. (low pressure - should cause the regulator not to cut out properly)
Pinion valve - these usually leak externally or internally in which case the steering is usually heavy on one side.
Hydractive - sorry - no experience.
Jeremy
the steering
http://citroen2.triger.com.pl/kc/pdf/citguide.pdf
I've looked at your problems and wonder if they are similar to those I had on my BX. When I got it I was horrified to find the light came on at 70 MPH in cool weather. The power steering didn't work either but at the time I could live with that, but after some deliberation I changed the pump and all seemed well until it warmed up and the light would come on when idling sometimes. I was not happy with the situationbut a change of doseur, regulator, re-seating the non-return valve, rebuild of flow diverter made no difference. By this time the light was coming on most of the time after about 2 miles and would generally go off if I revved the engine (usually changing down a gear.) The light would only go out and the car rise unless I held the steering wheel so as to close the pinion valve, and the ride was poor at times suggesting the car was riding low.
By chance I removed the ball valve in the original (by now replaced) diverter and found that it had been assembled incorrectly with the ball support the wrong side of the ball so that it was functioning as the valve itself. I re-assembled it correctly and replaced it on the car - and I've not seen the light since - rises properly . . . .
So - to go to your list -
Pump hose - replace it - it may have an effect but I would have thought you would have seen some evidence of air if you looked into the reservoir, particularily with the bleed valve on the regulator open. (assuming the circuit has not been broken recently.
safety valve - really rather a nice component that doesn't seem to give trouble. Its operation of the warning light is direct from the slide valve and from the diagram its dificult to see what can go wrong apart from external (or excessive internal)leakage.
Regulator - if the ticking is normal its probably ok. If the flow diverter is not allowing sufficient pressure to the rest of the circuit I would expect some change in the ticking characeristics but cant recall any on my own car. (low pressure - should cause the regulator not to cut out properly)
Pinion valve - these usually leak externally or internally in which case the steering is usually heavy on one side.
Hydractive - sorry - no experience.
Jeremy
the steering
Re: xantia hydraulic problem
Hello. I opened the Xantia hydraulic pump from the engine and now that I want to close it on the engine, I don't know which side to throw the spacer washer.
Because the dynamo belt comes out of the pulley of the hydraulic pump with the size of a groove.
Thank you for your guidance.
Because the dynamo belt comes out of the pulley of the hydraulic pump with the size of a groove.
Thank you for your guidance.
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Re: xantia hydraulic problem
Hi, I think that maybe used a translation engine to write your post and the meaning is not completely clear. I think that you are saying that you removed the pump and don't know where a spacer or washer goes.
If you post the 17 digit VIN of the car, we .ay be able to find a diagram of the pump assembly.
If you post the 17 digit VIN of the car, we .ay be able to find a diagram of the pump assembly.