XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Moderator: RichardW
- falling-out-with-my-car
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Blimey thats a lot of complex diagnostics I just whipped out the three retainning philips screws popped down the scrappy did the same and only paid a fiver because they dont guarentee the fan motors and low and behold it worked perfectly.
my Father has dismantled these fans and replaced the brushes on several different types of fan those that seem unserviceable are actually not to bad to take appart, the speed controller capacitor on the back of the motor is about the most expensive bit to get replaced around £30 by a specialist motor electronics garage. the rest is fairly straight forward, I did try a good Mk1 xantia fan in my S2 and the speed controls didnt work in the S2 but work well in the Mk1. if you havent got a dive in and do it attitude then I suppose the only other way is to spend money.
regards Nigel.
my Father has dismantled these fans and replaced the brushes on several different types of fan those that seem unserviceable are actually not to bad to take appart, the speed controller capacitor on the back of the motor is about the most expensive bit to get replaced around £30 by a specialist motor electronics garage. the rest is fairly straight forward, I did try a good Mk1 xantia fan in my S2 and the speed controls didnt work in the S2 but work well in the Mk1. if you havent got a dive in and do it attitude then I suppose the only other way is to spend money.
regards Nigel.
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
- gadgetgricey
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Heeeeellllllpppppp.
Well as always I appear to have bitten off more than I can chew, and I HATE car electrics.
Finally got the time to have a look at the blower on the Xantia today and thought I was doing well. I thought it was the slider on the blower controls that was causing the issue. (and the fact the blender knob had dropped off) so replaced that. What a faf. Cables going everywhere and the clips pinging off at a moments notice. But with perserverance and probably five times that amount of time it would take anyone else, new one fitted. Sorted NO
Moved on to the blower motor itself, and there is 12V between the red and black wire on the motor itself when engine on, so thought would look at swapping the motors over.... However this is where the fun starts. Looks as though the previous owner has done a bit of electrics himself and think an earlier motor has been fitted, chopping the wires as we go.
Current motor fitted to the car, has the standard three connector blocks at the top, but then has an additional large connector on the side. New one only has the three same connectors at the top, but then the large connector is not there. Just has three connectors coming out of it. One large red to a block, two black to the same connector, and a small black wire about an 1" long to a black connector,
I can connect up the three main connectors in the same way, but will then have to "join/cut" the two wires into three on the new motor.
Also as a weird thing there is an inline fuse fitted by the previous owner supplying power to the main block on the right hand side. Pulled the fuse and the red feed to the connector top right is no longer there. Seems its supplying power to there via the blower itself.
Happy to provide any additional pictures to explain as best I can, but dont want to just plug things in as have a habit of blowing fuses or burning out wiring, as can be seen in previous posts.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks
- Dave -
Well as always I appear to have bitten off more than I can chew, and I HATE car electrics.
Finally got the time to have a look at the blower on the Xantia today and thought I was doing well. I thought it was the slider on the blower controls that was causing the issue. (and the fact the blender knob had dropped off) so replaced that. What a faf. Cables going everywhere and the clips pinging off at a moments notice. But with perserverance and probably five times that amount of time it would take anyone else, new one fitted. Sorted NO
Moved on to the blower motor itself, and there is 12V between the red and black wire on the motor itself when engine on, so thought would look at swapping the motors over.... However this is where the fun starts. Looks as though the previous owner has done a bit of electrics himself and think an earlier motor has been fitted, chopping the wires as we go.
Current motor fitted to the car, has the standard three connector blocks at the top, but then has an additional large connector on the side. New one only has the three same connectors at the top, but then the large connector is not there. Just has three connectors coming out of it. One large red to a block, two black to the same connector, and a small black wire about an 1" long to a black connector,
I can connect up the three main connectors in the same way, but will then have to "join/cut" the two wires into three on the new motor.
Also as a weird thing there is an inline fuse fitted by the previous owner supplying power to the main block on the right hand side. Pulled the fuse and the red feed to the connector top right is no longer there. Seems its supplying power to there via the blower itself.
Happy to provide any additional pictures to explain as best I can, but dont want to just plug things in as have a habit of blowing fuses or burning out wiring, as can be seen in previous posts.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks
- Dave -
C8 - Petrol Auto (Love the electronic doors)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Hopefully you are further on now. Do you think the fused feed is proving power to the blower? Or is it taking power from the blower for/to something else?
Looking at the wiring diagram, if the main red 12v to the brown plug had failed, bringing another 12v feed in as shown in your photo would do the job.
I'm guessing the fan in it is a replacement part manufacture 26th April 2010 so its not that old.
You may have to do some changing of connectors to couple up the thin pink wire, I had to do this fitting the fan out of a 1998 MK2 into a 2000 MK2.
If the main 12v has failed and the fused supply to the blue scotchlok is powering the fan you will need to re-instated this.
Rory
Looking at the wiring diagram, if the main red 12v to the brown plug had failed, bringing another 12v feed in as shown in your photo would do the job.
I'm guessing the fan in it is a replacement part manufacture 26th April 2010 so its not that old.
You may have to do some changing of connectors to couple up the thin pink wire, I had to do this fitting the fan out of a 1998 MK2 into a 2000 MK2.
If the main 12v has failed and the fused supply to the blue scotchlok is powering the fan you will need to re-instated this.
Rory
- gadgetgricey
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Hi there Rory.
Yes this is where my skills for electrics evade me. From what I can see the only 12V feed to the blower is the new scotchlock fused connector coming in from 06:00 on the picture below. However this is then split and goes to the sealed entry point to the fan on the right hand side, and the smaller of the connectors on the left hand side.
The red feed in the connector block of 4 wires at 10:00 in the picture only has 12V when the fuse is in the new connector, so presume some how the power is going through the motor and coming out that connection. Is that correct???
Should the 12v be going into the connection on the right hand side, or in via the 4 wire connector block, or even both. One of the many problems of being colour blind is that I;m not that good with wiring diagrams
Cheers
- Dave -
Yes this is where my skills for electrics evade me. From what I can see the only 12V feed to the blower is the new scotchlock fused connector coming in from 06:00 on the picture below. However this is then split and goes to the sealed entry point to the fan on the right hand side, and the smaller of the connectors on the left hand side.
The red feed in the connector block of 4 wires at 10:00 in the picture only has 12V when the fuse is in the new connector, so presume some how the power is going through the motor and coming out that connection. Is that correct???
Should the 12v be going into the connection on the right hand side, or in via the 4 wire connector block, or even both. One of the many problems of being colour blind is that I;m not that good with wiring diagrams
Cheers
- Dave -
C8 - Petrol Auto (Love the electronic doors)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Dave
You are at a disadvantage. Let's see if I can describe this in a clear way.
Normally, the thick red and black wires in the brown 4 block are the main 12v power in and the earth (out). The brown 4 block is plugged into the motor speed control pcd. The power out to the fan from the speed control pcd is via the is single white plug. The "additional" 12V supply should be going to the 4 wire block as the original did but looking at the wiring diagram where it is at the moment is effectively the same thing. It looks like the speed control is on the negative (earth) line.
You are at a disadvantage. Let's see if I can describe this in a clear way.
Normally, the thick red and black wires in the brown 4 block are the main 12v power in and the earth (out). The brown 4 block is plugged into the motor speed control pcd. The power out to the fan from the speed control pcd is via the is single white plug. The "additional" 12V supply should be going to the 4 wire block as the original did but looking at the wiring diagram where it is at the moment is effectively the same thing. It looks like the speed control is on the negative (earth) line.
- gadgetgricey
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Thanks again Rory for all your help on this.
So just looking at the new motor, I can connect the red lead to the smaller of the connectors on the motor, as it should just be getting 12V from the red feed in the 4 block connector.
I can then take the additional 12V feed wire that I have installed and cut in/replace the 12v feed that's not there on the 4 block connector. (Well its only reading 12V when its wired as it is at the moment. Remove the 30A fuse on the additional feed and no 12V)
That then just leaves the two connections unaccounted for. One small wire top right, and the long twin wire on the left. Does that plug into the connector that;s hidden in this shot.
Small wire.
Twin wire.
Thanks again for all your help on this.
Cheers
- Dave -
So just looking at the new motor, I can connect the red lead to the smaller of the connectors on the motor, as it should just be getting 12V from the red feed in the 4 block connector.
I can then take the additional 12V feed wire that I have installed and cut in/replace the 12v feed that's not there on the 4 block connector. (Well its only reading 12V when its wired as it is at the moment. Remove the 30A fuse on the additional feed and no 12V)
That then just leaves the two connections unaccounted for. One small wire top right, and the long twin wire on the left. Does that plug into the connector that;s hidden in this shot.
Small wire.
Twin wire.
Thanks again for all your help on this.
Cheers
- Dave -
C8 - Petrol Auto (Love the electronic doors)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Hi,
That looks like a complicated fix.
I also have a Xantia 2.0l Hdi (S reg) and about 2 weeks ago my internal fan stopped stopping. Usually the fan would come on (usually on auto) then the fan would cut out. It is not doing this now. I have lost control of the fan speed. I can't stop it or make it any stronger. I can control the temp of the air (the slider switch) but the air speed flow does not change or stop whatever I do. I have narrowed this down to either the switch or maybe some sensor but am guessing.
After seeing the above post I am wandering what the best fix is. Or what to try first? Any advise anyone?
Steve
That looks like a complicated fix.
I also have a Xantia 2.0l Hdi (S reg) and about 2 weeks ago my internal fan stopped stopping. Usually the fan would come on (usually on auto) then the fan would cut out. It is not doing this now. I have lost control of the fan speed. I can't stop it or make it any stronger. I can control the temp of the air (the slider switch) but the air speed flow does not change or stop whatever I do. I have narrowed this down to either the switch or maybe some sensor but am guessing.
After seeing the above post I am wandering what the best fix is. Or what to try first? Any advise anyone?
Steve
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Dave
What you suggest looks right to me. That fused wire seems to be an replacement 12v feed so could/should go to the 4 wire connector.
Regards
Rory
What you suggest looks right to me. That fused wire seems to be an replacement 12v feed so could/should go to the 4 wire connector.
Regards
Rory
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Steve
If the fan is on full speed all the time it could be a failed transistor on the speed control PCB.
Have a look at
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=22348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sistor+fan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If it is running constantly but not at full speed then you could see what the ECU voltage is and whether it changes when you move the sliders.
Looking at Item 8045, Pin 3 (wire 16, orange) is the speed control input from the ECU. There will be a voltage here and this varies with fan speed.
Typical voltages are as follows:
Note the engine must be running. Outside temp about 18 degrees, car parked in full sun. Measured on a MK1 2.1TD.
Slider set to off: 12V (actually full battery voltage)
Slider at speed 1: 9.8V
Slider at speed 2: 8.4V
Slider at speed 3: 5.6V
Slider at full speed: 0.9V (almost earth)
Slider on Auto: 7.5V approx.
As can be seen, an earth on this wire will give full speed whereas full battery voltage will stop it.”
If the fan is on full speed all the time it could be a failed transistor on the speed control PCB.
Have a look at
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=22348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sistor+fan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If it is running constantly but not at full speed then you could see what the ECU voltage is and whether it changes when you move the sliders.
Looking at Item 8045, Pin 3 (wire 16, orange) is the speed control input from the ECU. There will be a voltage here and this varies with fan speed.
Typical voltages are as follows:
Note the engine must be running. Outside temp about 18 degrees, car parked in full sun. Measured on a MK1 2.1TD.
Slider set to off: 12V (actually full battery voltage)
Slider at speed 1: 9.8V
Slider at speed 2: 8.4V
Slider at speed 3: 5.6V
Slider at full speed: 0.9V (almost earth)
Slider on Auto: 7.5V approx.
As can be seen, an earth on this wire will give full speed whereas full battery voltage will stop it.”
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Pictoral guide to taking unit apart
http://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... tor#p10790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... tor#p10790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(95) XM Silver 2.1td Exclusive.
(87) Cx 2.5 DTR T1 undergoing major cosmetic surgery.
GPZ500s
(87) Cx 2.5 DTR T1 undergoing major cosmetic surgery.
GPZ500s
- gadgetgricey
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Well done as described above, fused wire added as replacement 12V feed for the four block connector and the little/short wires connected together. and
.
.
.
.
.
.
Still not working
Beginning to wonder if both my original and replacement fan motors are knackered as well....
There is a 12V feed between points 1&3 (or whatever the red and black wires are) on the 4 point connector, so presume the fan would be running at full power, but nothing.
Any other suggestions first, or is it time to find a new motor????
Cheers
- Dave -
.
.
.
.
.
.
Still not working
Beginning to wonder if both my original and replacement fan motors are knackered as well....
There is a 12V feed between points 1&3 (or whatever the red and black wires are) on the 4 point connector, so presume the fan would be running at full power, but nothing.
Any other suggestions first, or is it time to find a new motor????
Cheers
- Dave -
C8 - Petrol Auto (Love the electronic doors)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Try connecting the motor direct to a (substantial) 12V supply, eg direct to the battery. If you are holding the motor take care it does give a fair old kick when it starts up.
Rory
Rory
- gadgetgricey
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Ok tested both the motors I have, I one that "failed" in the car and the replacement. Neither worked in the car when connected up via the four pin plug with 12V, however both worked when I connected them up directly as above.
Short term fix, but have connected the old one back up to the 12V replacement feed and earth so the fan is running at high speed all the time.
Is it likely that both the motors I have are broken as they are not "getting" 12V via the correct route.
Sorry for the weird post, but sent from phone as Internet is down at home.
Cheers
- Dave -
Short term fix, but have connected the old one back up to the 12V replacement feed and earth so the fan is running at high speed all the time.
Is it likely that both the motors I have are broken as they are not "getting" 12V via the correct route.
Sorry for the weird post, but sent from phone as Internet is down at home.
Cheers
- Dave -
C8 - Petrol Auto (Love the electronic doors)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Hi All,
Have been following posts and have removed the fan motor unit. Thanks for advice.
I can see a small amount of corrosion on 1 of the transistors.
Will order these (ST FW26025A1, 9M564 VW, 9M 538, MYS ) this is the number on the back of the transistors. Where is best place to order these from? Also I have read that I will need some heat glue, does it matter which make or thermal resistance?
Thanks,
Steve
Have been following posts and have removed the fan motor unit. Thanks for advice.
I can see a small amount of corrosion on 1 of the transistors.
Will order these (ST FW26025A1, 9M564 VW, 9M 538, MYS ) this is the number on the back of the transistors. Where is best place to order these from? Also I have read that I will need some heat glue, does it matter which make or thermal resistance?
Thanks,
Steve
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Re: XANTIA BLOWER WORKING INTERMITTENTLY
Dave
| think this narrows the problem down. The brown connector goes onto the control module pcb. The power to the motor comes off the PCB. It could be a problem with the continuity between the brown connector and the PCB, a problem on the PCB or continuity between connectors on the PCB and the feeds to the motor. Given that you have two motors with different control modules for them both to be duff would be a coincidence but possible. As the brown connector is the common component have a good look at that. Try unscrewing the control module and then connecting everything up "correctly". Then try manually operating the relay on the control module PCB. If the motor runs at full speed then power is "getting through" the PCB and the problem is probably the control module transistors or control side circuit on the PCB. As zero volts on the control wire means the fan runs at full speed you can check if it is an ECU control signal problem by disconnecting the control wire. Remenber the engine needs to be running for the fan to operate normally.
Rory
| think this narrows the problem down. The brown connector goes onto the control module pcb. The power to the motor comes off the PCB. It could be a problem with the continuity between the brown connector and the PCB, a problem on the PCB or continuity between connectors on the PCB and the feeds to the motor. Given that you have two motors with different control modules for them both to be duff would be a coincidence but possible. As the brown connector is the common component have a good look at that. Try unscrewing the control module and then connecting everything up "correctly". Then try manually operating the relay on the control module PCB. If the motor runs at full speed then power is "getting through" the PCB and the problem is probably the control module transistors or control side circuit on the PCB. As zero volts on the control wire means the fan runs at full speed you can check if it is an ECU control signal problem by disconnecting the control wire. Remenber the engine needs to be running for the fan to operate normally.
Rory