AX 1.5D starting probs

[3ps]

Hi,

The last two mornings have been a little bit nippy, not too bad, but definitely a chill in the air.

I was surprised to find that the AX took a while to start.

If it's this bad now, what will it be like in a few months????

I am into preventative maintenance, and I want to keep the AX for a while as it is so cheap to run, so I need to investigate this.

The glow plug light does come on but only stays lit for 2-3 seconds.
This morning, I repeatedly turned it on 3-4 times but it made no difference to the starting.

I'd say the car chugged for perhaps 7-8 seconds before catching.

It's a while since I have had an old-skool diesel so I would appreciate any tips on how to diagnose.

Thanks.

[3ps]

FYi the previous owner has told me:

"It was always a slow starter on frosty mornings but I never noticed this during normal seasonal weather. I tried various knacks for better cold starting like leaving the ignition switched on longer than than just waiting for the glow plug to go out but in my view this only made it worse. I had the glow plug tested and it was found to be working normally. In the end I just accepted that it takes a few turns to start on cold mornings but it never affected the cars running once started - and once started in the morning there was no problem starting it for the rest of the day. The injector pump that was replaced did not affect anything - it was slow to start on cold mornings with the old injector pump too."

[spider]

2 or 3 seconds is not really enough on a cold day.

Later models, the glowplug timer is controlled via a temperature sensor. Although the plugs (on nearly all models) stay powered up for a few seconds after the light goes out.

Interesting it is no better with glowing it twice though. Assuming the plugs are actually OK it may well be air ingress or valve clearances (clearances tend to be a hot engine starting concern though)

Try this on a cold morning:

Switch the ignition on (to open the stop solenoid), open the bonnet and pump the primer bulb a few times. Return to the car and switch the ignition off and on again (to reheat the glowplugs) then try to start it.

[Peter.N.]

Have all the glow plugs been tested? A quick would be to connect a voltmeter from any glow plug terminal to earth, with the ignition switch in the glow plug position you should have 10 - 11 volts for about 15 seconds, if you have nearer 12 volts, one or more glow plugs have failed.

Peter

[3ps]

OK I will check for air and power and report back. Thanks.

[spider]

Peter does raise a good point about the glowplugs, ie not taking someone else's word for them being OK or otherwise. The test indicated will provide a good clue as to their status.

Occasionally they can appear to work, ie drawing current properly but can have odd faults such as glowing in the middle instead of the tip, this kind of concern would only be noticed if they were removed and bench tested (well, vice tested, I'd not want them melting my bench) this does not seem to be a common problem though, I've only seen it a few times.

[citronut]

i have got a brand new ( not re/coned ) engine still for sale on the pallet it came from the factory on, with a new OE cam belt and oil filter

[JohnD]

Hi,


The glow plug light does come on but only stays lit for 2-3 seconds.
.

It should be on for longer than that. In fact the plugs should still be energised for up to 15 seconds after the engine has started. Maybe you should be looking at the control unit.

[andy5]

Does it produce a bit of grey smoke to begin with?

If it turns out not to be the glowplugs either, get the compression tested

I know it's a different engine, so this may not apply, but when my old BX diesel became tricky to start from cold, but no problem at all when warm, the local diesel expert tested the compressions, then reshimmed the valve clearances and it was back to perfect.

[3ps]

Didn't get a chance to do much testing this evening.

Drove home from work, and parked the car for an hour. On starting the glow plug light stayed on for about 8 seconds and it started fine.
Drove for 10 mins.
Left the car for an hour.
On starting, the light lit for 3-4 seconds and it started fine.

Will check in the morning, by pumping the hand pump, as that is the easiest check for me...

I haven't noticed any smoke, so it's probably within limits. It just passed it's annual test a few weeks ago (the NCT in Ireland, which I believe is a lot stricter than the MOT)

[3ps]

OK, so it was nice and nippy this morning.
First thing I did was to pump the hand pump for about a minute. The first 2 squeezes were fairly easy, after that it was harder, but not too hard, and it didn't really get any harder.

Glow plug light stayed on for about 4-5 seconds.

No difference.... it churned a bit and eventually caught.

So I guess I will try the glow pugs next.....

[JohnD]

So I guess I will try the glow pugs next.....

Reading your last two posts, my guess would be that you'll find one - maybe two duff plugs.

[RussellF97]

I had (sort of) the same problem with my ZX 1.9D. Although the glow plug light stayed on for a good few seconds it would still take a bit of cranking before catching and when it did,everything behind me would disappear in a blue fog - even with new glow plugs.
Then I had the injectors serviced... Result! Starts as Citroen intended and no blue fog.

What mileage is on the car? Mine was on 139000...

[3ps]

There is an indicated 74,000 miles on it.

[spider]

They can fail at a low mileage as well as a high one, its partly how many times they are operated and partly their quality.

If after replacement try to find Beru or Bosch ones, the quality / life of (some) others leaves a lot to be desired. Ensure you get ones for a TUD5 not a TUD3.

I'd personally take them all out, and bench (vice) test them one at a time ensuring they start glowing quickly and at the tip are first not in the middle. It may be cost effect to just replace all four to be honest, never been a fan of replacing just one or two of them, moreso given they are very easy to access on the TUD unit too.

EDIT... Although obvious (sorry!) if vice testing take precautions against heat / fire risk etc, you would not believe how hot (and how quickly) they can get, you certainly don't want to be holding them that's for sure. They will take a while to cool down after too.