Xantia HDi Turbo?? Smoky and Limp Home

[olliewarwick1]

Hi All,

I'm hoping someone can help me out.

I'm driving at about 70-75mph today when I noticed that I'd lost power. When I pulled over I over it occured to me that the car had gone into limp home mode. I lifted the bonnet (the manly thing to do in this situation) and noticed there appeared to be a small amount of steam or smoke coming from behind the engine. Also the ignition warning light/engine management light came on.

I turned it off and left if for a few minutes, started it again and it would then rev over 2000 (light stayed on though). So I pulled back onto the road and left the hard shoulder in a grey/black cloud of smoke (it doesn't normally do that), I continued on my journey which went up a hill and again a similar cloud of smoke and then it went back into limp home. The turbo did kick in when pulling away but I'm not sure it had the same power as normal when I first pulled away but that might have just been me.

I wouldn't say there was any change in noise, but it's worth noting that the turbo has always been very whistley and I've had it for four years, I could still hear the whistle but I'm not sure if that's comforting or not.

The car is on 193k so it's done very well.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Ollie

[citroenxm]

Hmmmmm sounds like a vaccumm problem. The waste gates on 110 HDis are "Normally OPEN" when switched off... then when you start the car the vaccumm then pulls the gate closed to allow the boost into the inlet. When boost max pressure is reached the vaccumm is switched to waste so the gate can close.

So what I think it may be is over by the cam belt cover to the right of the drivers sphere are TWO electro valves. The first thing you can try without harm is SWAP them over, Make sure all the 4 vaccumm pipes go back to the same place on them both. Take a pic with a camera for reference. Swap the electrical plugs too.

The other controls the EGR.. Rare that both should go down, but not unknown. swapping them over hopfully the EGR one works and the Turbo will perform correctly again. The valves are not stupid money.. HERE IS ONE

Thats my first check. The other thing is check the intercooler pipes for splits. Have you a loud Hissing??

[olliewarwick1]

Thanks very much for the quick response. I wouldn't say I have a louder hissing than normal. I mean from the turbo as it's always seemed quite loud.

The other thing worth mentioning is that I filled the car up from almost completely empty to completely full about 30 miles before this occurred. Thought it might be worth noting.

If I swap those two electrovalves, would I expect to have a problem elsewhere, so follow the fauty valve and if so what do you think would happen?

Ollie

[citroenxm]

Nothing.. The non working EGR is far less detrimental in that it goes un-noticed.. so no, you should Not get a problem else where..

[olliewarwick1]

Hi again,

So I swapped the electrovalves around, and although the engine light hasn't come on, and it hasn't gone into limp home mode there is still a lot of smoke and the turbo is not pulling like it used to. It is worth changing those electrovalves just in case?

Thanks,
Ollie

[citroenxm]

If you can get the two valves as cheap as in the link above then yes it is.. You can rule them out..

However still smoking.. this still says leaking turbo boost AFTER the intercooler. What is happening there is the turbo is spinning up, rasing the Inlet pressure the turbo pressure sensor is seeing this, (its mounted on the right hand TOP side of the intercooler infront of the radator, you can see the sensor down the side of the rad battery side) so it tells the ECU the pressure raised and there fore increases the fueling... However, the engine is not reciving the raised boost pressure so theres then too much fuel injected for the amount of air recived. Hence me questioning a Boost leak.

The smoke can ALSO be the EGR valve stuck open not being caused by a vaccuum control but mechanically stuck open.

Just two possibilites...

[neil123]

"The smoke can ALSO be the EGR valve stuck open not being caused by a vaccuum control but mechanically stuck open"

I'd go with that - symptoms exactly the same as mine was, except can't recall mine triggering any light. Don't just block the pipe - you need to actually examine the EGR valve itself. Mine had corroded through the vacuum capsule so the valve could stay open regardless of what engine was calling for and what vacuum was doing. Awkward things to fit but not that dear... and if that fixes it and its otherwsie going well, 193k isn't so very much for a reasonably well cared for lump!

Hope that helps.
Neil

[olliewarwick1]

That's brilliant, thanks for all your help again. As the symptoms have slightly changed since swapping the electrovalves I guess it make sense to replace those, then turn my attention to the EGR valve. Am I right in saying this is the mushroom looking device situated between the engine and the bulkhead pointing up at a slight angle? I've read a couple of posts that say this can be cleaned and freed up. How do I go about removing it?

I know 193k seems like a lot, but it's been such a good car I don't really want to give up on it now, plus I know all it's little quirks and history.

Thanks,
Ollie

[CitroJim]

Olie, you don't say if this is a 110 HDi and if so then another possibility - not mentioned yet - is a leaky intercooler and/or split rubber turbo hoses to/from the intercooler.

Any splits in the hoses or intercooler - and they may be very small and hidden on casual examination as the hoses swell under boost - will give themselves away by sticky oily stains in their vicinity... You may hear a 'windy' sound too under hard acceleration. Leaky hoses and intercoolers often cause some black smoke to be emitted under hard acceleration...

The 90 does not have an intercooer but it's still worth checking the pipe from the hot side of the turbo to the inlet manifold for splits.

[citroenxm]

Olie, you don't say if this is a 110 HDi and if so then another possibility - not mentioned yet - is a leaky intercooler and/or split rubber turbo hoses to/from the intercooler.

Any splits in the hoses or intercooler - and they may be very small and hidden on casual examination as the hoses swell under boost - will give themselves away by sticky oily stains in their vicinity... You may hear a 'windy' sound too under hard acceleration. Leaky hoses and intercoolers often cause some black smoke to be emitted under hard acceleration...

The 90 does not have an intercooer but it's still worth checking the pipe from the hot side of the turbo to the inlet manifold for splits.

Hi Jim, I have asked him about split hoses in the form of a loud HISSSING under accelleration... in my first post I mentioned intercooler pipes...

[citroenxm]

Awkward things to fit but not that dear... and if that fixes it and its otherwsie going well, 193k isn't so very much for a reasonably well cared for lump!


Neil

193k is not a lot for any HDi... Mines on a low 219k and still rather strong.

[CitroJim]

Hi Jim, I have asked him about split hoses in the form of a loud HISSSING under accelleration... in my first post I mentioned intercooler pipes...

Sorry Paul, completely missed that despite a fairly careful read of the posts I'm making an appointment with SpecSavers now...

In fact - I really must...

[citroenxm]

Its Ok Jim, its just REALLY GOOD to see you posting here... your input is really missed...

[Chris570]

Its Ok Jim, its just REALLY GOOD to see you posting here... your input is really missed...

Indeed so....... GROUPHUG

no?

oh ok

[citroenxm]

That's brilliant, thanks for all your help again. As the symptoms have slightly changed since swapping the electrovalves I guess it make sense to replace those, then turn my attention to the EGR valve. Am I right in saying this is the mushroom looking device situated between the engine and the bulkhead pointing up at a slight angle? I've read a couple of posts that say this can be cleaned and freed up. How do I go about removing it?

I know 193k seems like a lot, but it's been such a good car I don't really want to give up on it now, plus I know all it's little quirks and history.

Thanks,
Ollie

EGR valve is quite simple.. theres two 10mm nuts holding it on Im sure, they sensibly decided to use proper Nuts in stead if stupid Torx Heads where they get hot... Remove the top mount with the engine supported under neath, lower the engine a bit and access is a bit better. Undo the two bolts and simply lift it outwards!

If its completey Toast, I may be able to suply a used replcement to you..