I 'optimised' the 306 dturbo today, so this might be of some interest to 1.9td owners!
Im running about 16.5 psi boost, and boy does it fly.
The full power screw (on the rear of the pump) is turned 1/4 of a turn.
The full load delivery diaphragm is turned 45 degrees clockwise.
(Read the Dodge Ram article for this, there is also a site in French, but has fantastic pictures, http://philippe.trinquet.free.fr/ and the landrover forum http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubbthr ... art=1&vc=1)
I did the fueling adjustments first and then increased the boost to reduce the smoke levels. Took it to the garage and it does 1.5K on the smoke machine!!
Some raw performance figures:
30-50mph in 3rd: 4 seconds (Standard about 5 - 6)
50-70mph in 5th: 8 seconds (Standard about 9 - 10)
I will be writing an article for my website with pictures very soon as a refernence for other owners.
Ross
Crank up the boost 1.9TD ?
Moderator: RichardW
I have the KKK turbo on my 306. I didn't have to screw the wastegate adjuster all the way in, but its almost there. I suspect though, if I adjust the fuelling the boost will rise without me having to adjust the wastegate, as I adjusted the fuelling first and then adjusted the boost so as to get as little smoke as possible. (E.g its probably running slightly on the lean side.)
How does the Xantia perform in relation to the in gear times for my 306?
Ross
How does the Xantia perform in relation to the in gear times for my 306?
Ross
rossd wrote :
<font size="4">You can't, in effect, run a diesel engine 'lean'. Fuelling and turbo boost are not indepandant in a diesel engine, you cannot adjust the wastegate and expect to see more boost. (You can to a certain extent, but that is because these engines run slightly on the rich side anyway.) Fuelling adjustments must be made alongside boost adjustments to correctly 'tune' a diesel engine for optimum performance.
Therefore, just adjusting the boost will not make the car run hotter, extra fuel causes extra heat!!</font id="size4">
im really confused by your reply, boost is just a posh name for air pressure, so its easy to increase the boost pressure without increase the fueling, in a diesel or petrol, in petrol engines the ecu needs to be chipped or remapped to maintain the air/fuel mixture. im sure there is some controlling method for a diesel
im not sure i agree with your last statement running an engine lean will cause it to run hot and eventual detonation in a petrol engine im sure it will do the same for a diesel?
<font size="4">You can't, in effect, run a diesel engine 'lean'. Fuelling and turbo boost are not indepandant in a diesel engine, you cannot adjust the wastegate and expect to see more boost. (You can to a certain extent, but that is because these engines run slightly on the rich side anyway.) Fuelling adjustments must be made alongside boost adjustments to correctly 'tune' a diesel engine for optimum performance.
Therefore, just adjusting the boost will not make the car run hotter, extra fuel causes extra heat!!</font id="size4">
im really confused by your reply, boost is just a posh name for air pressure, so its easy to increase the boost pressure without increase the fueling, in a diesel or petrol, in petrol engines the ecu needs to be chipped or remapped to maintain the air/fuel mixture. im sure there is some controlling method for a diesel
im not sure i agree with your last statement running an engine lean will cause it to run hot and eventual detonation in a petrol engine im sure it will do the same for a diesel?
Right, I'll try to explain it better.
You have to be aware that diesel turbos run on a very different principle to a petrol turbo.
In a diesel engine, you can only wind in the wastegate so much before you wont see any more boost. Why? Well its the expansion of the hot exhaust gases over the turbine which accelerate it and cause it to spin faster (thus create more pressure/boost). Add more fuel, you get more heat and so the turbo spins faster. By adjusting the turbo without adjusting the fuelling, you are not creating any more heat to spin the turbo.
Think load! You can rev the engine as much as you want in neutral and there will be hardly any boost made by the turbo. Climb a steep hill with your foot to the floor in top gear and the turbo is creating lots of boost. This is because of the extra fuel that is added when the engine is under load.
As more fuel = more heat, running lean = less boost and less heat.
A diesel engine will not suffer from detonation as a petrol would in high boost situations.
You have to be aware that diesel turbos run on a very different principle to a petrol turbo.
In a diesel engine, you can only wind in the wastegate so much before you wont see any more boost. Why? Well its the expansion of the hot exhaust gases over the turbine which accelerate it and cause it to spin faster (thus create more pressure/boost). Add more fuel, you get more heat and so the turbo spins faster. By adjusting the turbo without adjusting the fuelling, you are not creating any more heat to spin the turbo.
Think load! You can rev the engine as much as you want in neutral and there will be hardly any boost made by the turbo. Climb a steep hill with your foot to the floor in top gear and the turbo is creating lots of boost. This is because of the extra fuel that is added when the engine is under load.
As more fuel = more heat, running lean = less boost and less heat.
A diesel engine will not suffer from detonation as a petrol would in high boost situations.
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KevMayer
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I'm not sure about the acceleration times. I did get the Xantia to do 120Mph which it has never done before (just over 4400 rpm in 5th).
I am convinced that my pump timing is out slightly out. Either the static timing, or, more probably, the ECU controlled timing advance. I've tried adjusting the throttle position sensor. This made a difference. I managed to get the timing advanced slightly but it seemed to be knocking when I made a trip to the council tip with a heavily loaded trailer on the back, so I put it back to normal. I checked the throttle position sensor potentiometer and it seemed to have a rough patch at low throttle position, i.e, the resistance jumped about as it swept through the low range, then became nice and smooth as it moved to higher throttle positions. So, I suspect my timing may be out at low throttle because the ECU doesn't get a clean signal in this range. I had a guote for a new pos sensor, over 200 quid. I'm going to check scrap dealers.
I need to get the timing checked, but can't find a garage who can be bothered to look at it. They are all interested in bog standard servicing. They shy away from fault finding. I know this because my mate used to run a garage, he always lost money when he started fault finding.
I'm tempted to get a dial gauge and check the static timing myself.
Cheers, Kev
I am convinced that my pump timing is out slightly out. Either the static timing, or, more probably, the ECU controlled timing advance. I've tried adjusting the throttle position sensor. This made a difference. I managed to get the timing advanced slightly but it seemed to be knocking when I made a trip to the council tip with a heavily loaded trailer on the back, so I put it back to normal. I checked the throttle position sensor potentiometer and it seemed to have a rough patch at low throttle position, i.e, the resistance jumped about as it swept through the low range, then became nice and smooth as it moved to higher throttle positions. So, I suspect my timing may be out at low throttle because the ECU doesn't get a clean signal in this range. I had a guote for a new pos sensor, over 200 quid. I'm going to check scrap dealers.
I need to get the timing checked, but can't find a garage who can be bothered to look at it. They are all interested in bog standard servicing. They shy away from fault finding. I know this because my mate used to run a garage, he always lost money when he started fault finding.
I'm tempted to get a dial gauge and check the static timing myself.
Cheers, Kev
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Thompatruck
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I've been following this post with interest and am considering applying these tweaks to my ZX, from this discussion all the good points have been covered what i'd like to know is the costs....
I realise that uprating the brakes would be a good idea, and my ZX is equipped with twin fans and temp indicators, so do I need anything else?
What sort of mpg do you sacrifice?
Is it likely to affect driving on long runs (ie overheating?)
Someone mentioned smoke, are we talking clouds or what?
and finally how much do I need to consider that this is likely to seriously strain the engine and/or turbo?
I realise these questions are individual to the car and the tweaks done but any input appreciated
Cheers
Mark
I realise that uprating the brakes would be a good idea, and my ZX is equipped with twin fans and temp indicators, so do I need anything else?
What sort of mpg do you sacrifice?
Is it likely to affect driving on long runs (ie overheating?)
Someone mentioned smoke, are we talking clouds or what?
and finally how much do I need to consider that this is likely to seriously strain the engine and/or turbo?
I realise these questions are individual to the car and the tweaks done but any input appreciated
Cheers
Mark
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KevMayer
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Thompatruck,
My Mpg is slightly better with the tweak.
There is next to no difference in smoke. might even be less.
I would say my engine temp is exactly as it was before the tweak. I have been keeping an eye on this because I wasn't sure whether there would have been any change.
By all accounts, there should be no extra strain on the engine.
I find that I drive more relaxed now that I have more power under my foot. Strange really. Perhaps thats why you see people with big powerfull cars driving slowly on the motorway. Thats my impression anyway.
Cheers
My Mpg is slightly better with the tweak.
There is next to no difference in smoke. might even be less.
I would say my engine temp is exactly as it was before the tweak. I have been keeping an eye on this because I wasn't sure whether there would have been any change.
By all accounts, there should be no extra strain on the engine.
I find that I drive more relaxed now that I have more power under my foot. Strange really. Perhaps thats why you see people with big powerfull cars driving slowly on the motorway. Thats my impression anyway.
Cheers
Can you not take your car to a local diesel fuel injection specialist to check the timing?
Luckily I don't have the engine with the ECU, I dont have the CAT or EGR either [:D]
You need an adaptor for a dial gauge to go into the back of the pump, I've seen many tool factors such as machine mart sell these.
Luckily I don't have the engine with the ECU, I dont have the CAT or EGR either [:D]
You need an adaptor for a dial gauge to go into the back of the pump, I've seen many tool factors such as machine mart sell these.
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franciscolunn
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Sorry guys but i think deisels are not for playing with, always end up with probs if you much about with tweaking,i have a 2.1 in a XM and am happy, never mucked with it and if i wanted more performance would get a petrol,apologies to those who can't afford to change but deisels were made for certain situations.
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KevMayer
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Interesting point of view francis.
I enjoy engineering and find turbo diesels so much fun to play with. I'm not really after incredible speeds but find the technicalities of my Xantia to be fascinating. I enjoy trying to master all the different systems.
You may have missed the point here. We're not talking about trying to make the best of a cheap form of transport. We're playing with systems. I love it.
Someone could have a lot of fun with a 2.1 XM. But maybe not you. Each to his own and good luck to you.
Cheers, Kev
I enjoy engineering and find turbo diesels so much fun to play with. I'm not really after incredible speeds but find the technicalities of my Xantia to be fascinating. I enjoy trying to master all the different systems.
You may have missed the point here. We're not talking about trying to make the best of a cheap form of transport. We're playing with systems. I love it.
Someone could have a lot of fun with a 2.1 XM. But maybe not you. Each to his own and good luck to you.
Cheers, Kev
in reply to rossd, in which you said increasing boost will not increase heat only an increase in fuel will:-
how do you feel abou this article?
The problem with increasing the airflow is that you will also need to increase the amount of fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. The reason for this being that <b>air burns hotter then fuel </b>if you start to burn too much air and not enough fuel the combustion chamber will start to develop "hot spots", these being red hot bits of carbon or parts of the spark plug. When this happens the air fuel mix will start to ignite on these spots rather then when the spark plug triggers it, this is very bad and can cause massive amounts of engine damage because if the air/fuel mix is ignited too, early you are literally forcing the piston back down the wrong way. Pistons can be melted because of the higher temperatures created by a lean mix.
how do you feel abou this article?
The problem with increasing the airflow is that you will also need to increase the amount of fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. The reason for this being that <b>air burns hotter then fuel </b>if you start to burn too much air and not enough fuel the combustion chamber will start to develop "hot spots", these being red hot bits of carbon or parts of the spark plug. When this happens the air fuel mix will start to ignite on these spots rather then when the spark plug triggers it, this is very bad and can cause massive amounts of engine damage because if the air/fuel mix is ignited too, early you are literally forcing the piston back down the wrong way. Pistons can be melted because of the higher temperatures created by a lean mix.