2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

[bxzx16v]

What's the views and opinions on the 2.1td & 2.0hdi xantia , my wife had a 2.1 a few years ago and it was great , never drove a hdi engined xantia , I've seen a few nice examples recently and I am very tempted , I had a 2.0 hdi engined dispatch that was pretty impressive , any views and opinions welcome ,

Thanks , Mark

[Citroenmad]

HDi would be the one I would look for, they have a very good spread of torque and power throughout the rev range, where as the 2.1tds are a bit more torque peaky.

I like the idea of remapping a HDI too, im yet to do it though! Usually gives more economy but the flexibility and improved performance after a remap is something else.

The 2.1TD is a superb engine though, very reliable, very nice to drive and it is refined on the move. Its a difficult one and there isn't too much between them in my eyes, though the 2.0HDi is the better engine in my opinion.

[DickieG]

I agree with Chris and will add that the HDi is far more refined especially at idle, it's torque curve starts much lower down so unlike a 2.1 you don't realise it's a turbo.

[Xaccers]

Remember, get the 110HDi, not the 90 (which is so sluggish you'll think you're driving a 2CV)

[DickieG]

Remember, get the 110HDi, not the 90 (which is so sluggish you'll think you're driving a 2CV)

Good point, the 90 is rather gutless by comparison with the 110 and isn't any more economical.

[Peter.N.]

The previous comments are interesting because I have been running 2.1s in XMs for over 15 years and the characteristics sound very different from those of a Xantia, maybe its down to the fully mechanical pump but for smoothmess and flexibility the XM 2.1 wins over the Hdi and I have both, the XM will pull smoothly from and down to tickover if you try and do that with the Hdi it complains, but, where the Hdi really scores is fuel consumption, the XM is good giving me over 50mpg on our annual run to the north of Scotland, on our return journey this year the 406 averaged 67.3mpg! Mind you I do drive like a grandad - well I am a grandad.

Peter

[Xaccers]

Yes the Bosch 2.1 does sound much better than the Lucas epic.
With it also being able to run on veg, it beats the 110 hdi in my book too.

[DickieG]

The previous comments are interesting because I have been running 2.1s in XMs for over 15 years and the characteristics sound very different from those of a Xantia, maybe its down to the fully mechanical pump but for smoothmess and flexibility the XM 2.1 wins over the Hdi and I have both, the XM will pull smoothly from and down to tickover if you try and do that with the Hdi it complains,

There must be something wrong with your HDi if it does that Peter, the ones I've had pull willing from and below idle, the engines are specified with the same torque figure of 250 Nm with the HDi peaking 250rpm lower suggesting something is not quite as it should be. The only other explanation is that the software used on your 406 is different.

The only thing EPIC about a 2.1 is the racket and vibration it makes

[jgra1]

I think my TD xant has more very low down than my new Hdi.. quite wierd..
the TD on average roads pulls happily from 1000 in 5th, I am not sure the Hdi will, based on my only journey in it... I am likely to be wrong though - more time needed

[Peter.N.]

The previous comments are interesting because I have been running 2.1s in XMs for over 15 years and the characteristics sound very different from those of a Xantia, maybe its down to the fully mechanical pump but for smoothmess and flexibility the XM 2.1 wins over the Hdi and I have both, the XM will pull smoothly from and down to tickover if you try and do that with the Hdi it complains,

There must be something wrong with your HDi if it does that Peter, the ones I've had pull willing from and below idle, the engines are specified with the same torque figure of 250 Nm with the HDi peaking 250rpm lower suggesting something is not quite as it should be. The only other explanation is that the software used on your 406 is different.

The only thing EPIC about a 2.1 is the racket and vibration it makes

Strangely I have found just the opposite, yes the Hdi will pull from tickover very well but it vibrates especially at 1500 rpm if you try to accelerate hard, the XM pulls smoothly at any speed. Do I have a problem? Incidentally my C5 gives the same symptoms in fact although the torque at tickover is tremendous, it fights you if in the wrong gear, its acceleration is still not as smooth as the XM.

Peter

[citroenxm]

I think my TD xant has more very low down than my new Hdi.. quite wierd..
the TD on average roads pulls happily from 1000 in 5th, I am not sure the Hdi will, based on my only journey in it... I am likely to be wrong though - more time needed

Ah but john, your HDi is in a C5.. In a Xantia it performs VERY differently...

I also a HDi now ANY day, even after the faff of messing with oil drums every where for a TD on WVO it doesn't work for me. HDi 110 (Has to be the 110) more efficient and a tuning box, which I also have fitted on my Xantia.. It widens the pull range, does not affect economy, and makes the 110 feel like a 90.. or a big derv with no turbo!

Im quite heavy footed and drive hard ish... even then with my boot always full with my Tool box etc I still manage around the 48 mark...

Ive not grown Grandad enough to try and stick to 56mpg every where and see what extra I get.

[Citroenmad]

Our 2.1TD Xm is also Bosch pumped and it sounds just like yours, good amount of low down pull. However to get the best from it the revs need to be between 2000-3000 rpm, when the turbo is doing its work, that spread of more usable power is a wider rev range in the HDi.

I have always disconnected the EGR with our 2.0HDi 110s, this seems to give more power lower down in the rev range and the car is much happier pulling away from lower revs.

The C5 is a heavy car and 110bhp is about as low as you would want to go with one. However they are not slow and I have had an awful lot of weight in C5 110s and still it drove fine with decent performance and economy.

[DickieG]

Strangely I have found just the opposite, yes the Hdi will pull from tickover very well but it vibrates especially at 1500 rpm if you try to accelerate hard, the XM pulls smoothly at any speed. Do I have a problem?

From reading that I'd say yes, are the engine mounts and driveshafts in good condition?

[Xaccers]

Peter, your 406 is a 110 right?

[spider]

When the HDi's first appeared in 406's and customers asked I used to say the 90 was "replacement" for the 1.9TD and the 110 was "replacement" for the 2.1TD , although we did not see many 2.1's, shame as its a really good powerful unit.

I know that's not exactly accurate as they have completely different characteristics being an IDI vs DI unit however it did provide a basic "guide" as it were...

I'd want a 110 if purchasing one in a larger vehicle, the 90 is OK in a smaller car but in a larger one its a bit sluggish sometimes (to be fair the 1.9TD 406 was too) , but depends on how you drive them I guess.