Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

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PhilGreaves
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Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by PhilGreaves »

Hi everyone,

i dont come on here very often i really should as i really like xantias and rumour has it they have quite a following on here. Anyway i could really do with some advice regarding a xantia sinker 1.9TD sx. just posted this on the ccc forum..any advice on here would be greatly appreciated, especially regarding the leaking bosch fuel pump, such as what to do, how much it'll cost and who can do it- im at leeds though can travel to get work done if necessary.

So copied from the other forum:

Currently looks like this..
Image

i can take some more/better photos when weather improves. But at the moment this is my most recent photo- despite the BX being more in focus :oops: .

Current faults; clutch worn out. Fuel pump leaking...rather badly if im honest, and handbrake fault. Advice from mechanic Graham scrap it "it will take up money like a mongrel". Bit of rust on leading edges of front wings and rear wings. Nearside rear quarter had a crappy repair and will need fixing within next 3-5 years. Worn paint on edge of sills has lead to minor surface rust. No electrical faults other than crappy connection n/s/r abs sensor, abs bulb blown (due to aforementioned issue!!), faulty water in fuel sensor since new (signed off by the late john Greaves as being a faulty sensor). no hydraulic issues...ever..Turbo fine, engine fine, one strut top done other original. original heater matrix. Serviced every year though initially it had a miniservice before winter too. New brakes (disc and pads) exhaust, acclerator cable, cambelt, clutch clip, tyres and in past 3 years.

technically still working as has run for over 2k with fuel pump in a mess and no clutch, quite impressive really...

Quote from garage for initial work; 350 for clutch, 150 -200 for fitting of second hand fuel pump. I suppose the latter is the killer bit; ive seen jim eastments excellent website about resealing, but its way beyond me, and i dont have anywhere to work anyway. Firms quoted me 7-900 to recondition it, but mechanic says these are only a 7/10 solution (10 out of 10 being a new pump) though probably better than just replacing a single seal etc..new pumps cost over 2k...so that out lol. No gurantee of anything else lasting or even the second hand pump lasting but it would stop the leak and the car could be used immediately.

Needless to say parents now want to scrap it or offer it to me..probably cant afford another car- BX is enough trouble :wink: mind ive got a new solex for it now so god willing no more "kangeroo down sport"...But suppose i may be able to stretch to it at least initially.

But it is still a sinker xantia..still the last citroen to interest me (no offence to anybody who owns newer stuff, to me lds c5/c6 was always a cop out..i like the new c4 though!!).

So shall i save it from scrap..even temporarily..certainly long enough for the icccr?

Its up to you (since ive just remembered the poll feature. :lol: )

thanks for your advice/opinions in advance
Phil
P.S mot runs out on 24th..lol..so need a decision soon..
many thanks in advance, ill await the responses, as im genuinely unsure what to do....
Phil...
Xantia Columnist xantia@CitroenCarClub.org
1984 Citroen BX 16 TRS (winner now with working PAS!!)
1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD SX (mk 1a. Jan 1994 with antisink valve. Restored by chevronics..new rear quarters fitted etc :shock: )

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Re: Sinker Xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by Xaccers »

The pump won't be armoured so it should be much easier to get sorted.
Where exactly is it leaking from?
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
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Re: Sinker Xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by citronut »

i baggsy the hydraulic pump and regulator if you break her :shock: :lol: :wink: ,

beautiful bx there Phill

regards malcolm
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Re: Sinker Xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by oscar »

One way round it is to do both things at once.Get a decent 2nd hand pump or find out where leak is as been mentioned it's not amoured so easier to fix.Get a clutch then get them to take engine out and do both together as can't charge twice for same job?.
as once engines out it's easy to do both.
Theres a few non ecu bosch pumps on flea bay
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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by PhilGreaves »

came back last week after a huge bill. Fuel pump has had some sort of bearing replaced (from a good second hand SD pump) and drive shaft seals. Its been marked up so defo been apart, not exaclty sure whats been done have just phoned the garage now and my mechanics away, but i have asked for all the old parts back.

Still leaking (though not as bad) and stuggling to start. Starter motor is sounding very strained too. Still clutch works.... :roll:

Well jim eastment (who never actually saw it) thought the drive shaft seal (i think). As its does struggle to start.

Thanks for the comment malcolm!! The BX never has problems like this you know! I dont want to break the xantia but....hydraulic pump done 182k y a know??! you've got my number anyway.

ironic really..bx doesnt work, xantia does..then vice versa..never both work at the same time.. #-o

bit of a loss really as to what to do? I've just spent all this money on it and im not even sure it'll make it to the rally now. Any thoughts on how and who can fix this issue? patience and money is wearing thin now...

thanks
Phil
Edit: Forgot to say there is a time limit as like last time it'll soon start smelling so much it wont be drivable, also it may be my imagination but it doesn't sound right.
Xantia Columnist xantia@CitroenCarClub.org
1984 Citroen BX 16 TRS (winner now with working PAS!!)
1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD SX (mk 1a. Jan 1994 with antisink valve. Restored by chevronics..new rear quarters fitted etc :shock: )

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by CitroJim »

The garage has cocked up. If it's still leaking and not running right the job has not been done properly. The garage must do the job properly. End of. I believe there's legislation to say this is so.

From the symptoms it sounds like the timing is out or the fuel delivery is wrong which, if an SD pump was used, may be the case.

Bosch pumps don't have bearings in them, not ones that can be replaced anyway. Just phosphor bronze bushes.

Phil, PM received and answered...
Jim

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by PhilGreaves »

mechanic away. I dont believe an sd pump in its entirety was fitted only that bits were..just not clear which bits..but will find out later today or tomorrow. Im hoping that it stil is cpable of being reconditioned.

Quite correct jim. Garage have been quite good now ill admite- now ive calmed down. They have already said they will either a)deduct price charged for all fuel pump work, b)do it again/fix foc or c) offer discount off another option which i am able to find. Either way they seem certain of fixing it.

Edit: sorry to emphasise jim symptoms exaclty the same. Drawing in air on start up so struggles and leaking fuel..though the insides dont smell of diesel..yet..Worst thing is i cant park it on the street.

I'm just pissed really coz id leant it back to my mum to use for work to stop her using my dads expensive audi until she can find a new car (t*at with the picasso suddenly got shifty shall we say)..grr... Not to mention they cant do the xantia until August 6th so cutting it close really....

anyway im working on the assumption that taking it apart to replace whatever they did last time wont work. Therefore im looking for other options.

So far theres a few pumps around in france second hand (not ideal but at least they've been run on decent fuel). Or a firm in france reconditioning for 200 Euros, needless to say ive emailed them.

Oh and last time i looked into it a few months ago a firm in china was manufacturing bosch rotary fuel pumps, not this model but for those of you who are capable might be able to use some parts? Let me know if you are interested and ill dig it out...

thanks everyone and especially jim (pm sent ill try again later but you have my landline too now)
Phil
p.s think the strter motor is getting a bid tired now too...
Last edited by PhilGreaves on 23 Jul 2012, 19:22, edited 2 times in total.
Xantia Columnist xantia@CitroenCarClub.org
1984 Citroen BX 16 TRS (winner now with working PAS!!)
1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD SX (mk 1a. Jan 1994 with antisink valve. Restored by chevronics..new rear quarters fitted etc :shock: )

2009 Citroen C3 1.6Hdi 16v 90bhp Exclusive
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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by citronut »

as Jim says the garage have not done what they were employed to do, and it sounds like they have got the timing out now also,

are you saying they have used second hand seals on the pump or drive shafts [-X [-X [-X :evil: :evil: :roll:
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by CitroJim »

citronut wrote: are you saying they have used second hand seals on the pump or drive shafts [-X [-X [-X :evil: :evil: :roll:
If they did then there's the answer. That's just inviting trouble. New seals must be used every time, no exceptions...
Jim

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by PhilGreaves »

nope dont know where the timing issues diagnosis is coming from/what its based on?

Drives fine, pulls well, gearbox is now a joy..Just struggles to start as before and as its drawing in air it chucks out diesel. Leak from bottom cant be more specific and of course a lot of strain on battery/starter due to it struggling to start. It may be my imagination but i think it sounds different (though i have to admit i have been driving the bx alot) it seems more rattley..theres more of a tsh tsh tsh th...tsh tsh tsh tsh..sound...yes i know not much to go on....

wouldnt like to say whether it struggles to start or leaks any more or less than before as we never really measured it either way. So its defo the same fault.

Theyve said i can have my money back, its just that stil leaves me with a poorly car...and due to the road works i cant park it on the street. I really wont let it get to a stage where it blocks in the BX in, so i will have to scrap it this time if it gets that bad again.

i just hope that either the mechanic or you guys figure out a solution...or this french firm comes through.

of course the worst thing is now my dads wittering on about how it shouldve been scrapped and we just use his audi..germanic build quality he says. Odd..i wonder who made my weber carb..or this bosch fuel pump...!

Nope new seals were used..theyre on the bill...
Edit: sorry to quote from the bill "new drive shaft seals"..no idea about pump seals but ill ask.

thanks
Phil
P.S malcolm you ok now?
Xantia Columnist xantia@CitroenCarClub.org
1984 Citroen BX 16 TRS (winner now with working PAS!!)
1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD SX (mk 1a. Jan 1994 with antisink valve. Restored by chevronics..new rear quarters fitted etc :shock: )

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by CitroJim »

Phil, if the pump is leaking that badly it will be hard to start as the pump must be full to the brim and under pressure before the HP pump will inject enough to start the engine. A leaking pump shows the same symptoms as air ingress anywhere in the fuel system.

As a stop-gap, try pumping the primer bulb a few times before attempting a start... See if that helps.

Also, discount glowplugs. If they're at fault (might be, a lot has been disturbed) then the start attempts will be accompanied by grey smoke out of the exhaust. Grey smoke is pure, atomised unburned fuel.

Don't listen to your dad. This Xantia will live again...
Jim

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by PhilGreaves »

oh dont worry i havent listened to my father in years..

think we can rule out timing now, probably glow plugs, they are new. But ill ask for them to be checked.

So how many places do we know of that can recondition them? So far ive got one for £450 and another for £970 (sewells of leeds) Any others? (i dont mind if its garages or a bloke called bob in a shed...)

Interesting thought about hand priming, but my mum couldnt do that at work; i had to remove the bonnet stay as dad broke the plastic clip. The garage was all out of them too...

as everyones watching this (apparently?!) ill just say this; sinker xantias are not identical. Apart from the obvious ifferences cats/airbags, the solenoids in the doors are different. You've been warned. On of these days ill write up eveything we've had done to the xantia...(jim you've been warned!!).

Oh and dont forget; 20 years of the xantia this year (1992-2012). I'll let you all think about that.....

thanks for the chat jim..much appreciated..what a nice chap i have to say..slightly odd though..he knew it was me before id said anything...? mind reader maybe?!

thanks (bye for now)
Phil
Xantia Columnist xantia@CitroenCarClub.org
1984 Citroen BX 16 TRS (winner now with working PAS!!)
1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD SX (mk 1a. Jan 1994 with antisink valve. Restored by chevronics..new rear quarters fitted etc :shock: )

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by CitroJim »

PhilGreaves wrote: thanks for the chat jim..much appreciated..what a nice chap i have to say..slightly odd though..he knew it was me before id said anything...? mind reader maybe?!
It was good to have a natter last evening Phil :-D There was no trickery or mind reading sadly, I saw your number come up on the phone and recognised it :wink:

Hope all goes well and the pump will soon be good.. Keep us all informed of progress!
Jim

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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by citronut »

PhilGreaves wrote: stuggling to start. Starter motor is sounding very strained too.
Phill this is where the suggestion of timing out came from, or in my mind at least
ps.
you also say you think its more rattly now this also could be timing out, although its can still just be air in the circuit
Last edited by citronut on 24 Jul 2012, 08:10, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
citronut
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Re: Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

Post by citronut »

CitroJim wrote:
citronut wrote:
PhilGreaves wrote: stuggling to start. Starter motor is sounding very strained too.
Phill this is where the suggestion of timing out came from, or in my mind at least
Phil says that when the car is eventually running it goes well enough.
although Jim he also says he thinks it sounds a bit more rattly, i know this can also be due to air in the circuit
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
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