Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

PeterT · Post by **PeterT** » 21 May 2012, 00:27

Given a C3 XTR 1.4 Sensodrive, with a dealer quote for £1500 for both new gearbox and clutch actuators ; or £400 for 2nd-hand gearbox and £600 to fit it , in a 04 plate 80K-miles old car worth about £1500 ...

Two (South Bucks) Citroen dealers have looked at it, the 2nd one had more Sensodrive knowledge, but they said I was ok if I drove it in manual for ever - which I could live with , but it didn't , proving their knowledge base is faulty.

The fault is flashing snowflake and it then disabling drive when I brake to a stop ; wherever that is, at random, sometimes being in neutral so I can push it to the side of the road, once in a gear, hence a nice ride home with the AA..
After about an hour resting it allows starting ; sometimes the wait with foot on the brake pedal with all three brake lights on until it goes CLICK in to reset and neutral allows progress , but only for a random period of maybe 20minutes before it snowflakes again.

Last time I tried it it went snowflake error immediately after starting the engine up, but then still allowed me to select gears 1st/reverse and drive around within 200yrds of my home before I parked it again.

Any advice on what to do -
scrap it - £200
sell as seen on ebay..
sell it a car auction..
trade it in against something/
Autotrader - with the fault described?
does anyone on this forum want to offer money for it !?!

OR is this a fault that is fixable - but not by Citroen ??

Does any one on this forum have any wisdom beyond Citroen dealers, given these Sensodrive cars seem too rare for anyone to know anything about them

I could recommend anyone with a Sensodrive who has ever seen a snowflake error to sell their car immediately - but then the new owner will get the fault... but that won't actually help anyone..

thanks in advance for any reasonable replies given.

addo · Post by **addo** » 21 May 2012, 04:13

I thought your username was reserved for Peter Taylor of 205 lore?

Either way, there are a couple of people here with exposure to the Sensodrive and a better handle on likely costs.

smokescreen · Post by **smokescreen** » 21 May 2012, 06:59

For what it's worth, I had a 1.4HDi Sensodrive from new between Oct05 and Jan09. No problems with the auto/manual change until I had a front end prang and the gearbox ECU was changed. After that I had the snowflake symbol come up and gearbox dispaly showed ---. switched off and waited 30sec and then restarted. The display then showed neutral and then performed OK. Main dealer (Worthing Citroen) hooked the car up to diagnostics and said the gearbox ECU had old software and downloaded the most current software (under warranty) and thereafter no problems. However, your problem does sound less straightforward. If you can find someone who is 'Sensodrive' savvy it can't be beyond repair. Probably a sensor or ECU fault.

Regards

Lighty · Post by **Lighty** » 21 May 2012, 07:41

I am beginning to get my head around how these all work now, after hours of frustrating work.
First of all it is NOT the gearbox, as this is a manual box with add ons, so if it works sometimes, it ain't broke.
Basically there are only 4 components to break bar the box, these are the gear stick itself, the Ecu for the box, the clutch actuator, and the gear selector.
I have managed to get spares for most, so can fit my test units and fault find that way, as the Lexia doesn't always say the exact fault.
The gear stick fails quite a lot, these are £70
The Ecu fails, these are £300 new, 2 types depending on wether the car has ABS brakes
The clutch actuator, garages always break these when fitting a clutch, as they need to be put in clutch removal position, I have figured out a way to fix them.
The gear selector mechanism, these are expensive at about £500 ish quid, again they need to be put in removal position, although they will go again if set up before fitting.
The reason people quote so much to repair is because they cover themselves for every part, due to a lack of knowledge.
I would wager your car could be fixed for next to nothing, using used bits, sounds like a temperature issue, pointing to electronics.
I will give you £100 for it.

shame you are so far away.

Alternatively get it sent to me on an AA truck and I will fix it for you

spider · Post by **spider** » 21 May 2012, 08:57

If you wanted to keep the car, would it not be possible to just convert it to a standard manual using used parts ?

Pedal box, linkages etc ? , not really looked to see how feasible this would be...

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 21 May 2012, 09:22

To assist diagnosis do you know what faults are recorded by the ECU's? If you don't know and would like to find out I live in South Bucks and have the necessary equipment to reveal that info.

PeterT · Post by **PeterT** » 21 May 2012, 09:45

thank you for the replies so far..

I had wondered about converting it to manual too...

the 2nd Citroen dealer said it might just need retraining, but when they looked at it they said the same as the first - replace both actuators..
I don't know if they would supply me the fault code print out if they still have it!

Even replacing the gearbox with a whole 2nd hand one is fun - apparently if the parts aren't exact matches then it might all be apart and still need a donor...

Given it might be a heat/time issue then simple fault finding processes probably won't work..

--
if I had the fault codes, would they conclusively say "change the ecu<->actuator lead' or similar??
^^^ that is the $64M question ^^^

or could I have an error code coming back from an ABS sensor? - given the front spring collapsed as it was in the recall list but not recalled, that wrote off the OSF suspension, ABS lead, brake pipe etc - Citroen head office did cover that cost - but only after I got political..

--

I am only happy driving the car, if I have a follow car that knows I will STOP , containing someone else to help push me to safety, but it has done 30miles to Aylesbury with no sign of trouble, and then stopped 1mile into the 30mile return journey.. I can see no logic yet..
--
got to go to work, now, but do appreciate the responses here..
PeterT

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 21 May 2012, 18:01

I dont know exactly what the dealers have done but the first things i would have done would be to update the software in both the gearbox & engine ECU's then reprogram the clutch & gearbox auctuators. Do you know if any of the dealers tryed this ?

Post by **CitroJim** » 21 May 2012, 18:15

To a gearbox addict like me this is very interesting and I'd be happy to take the car off your hands for scrap value just for the interest and experience of getting to know these 'boxes..

Don't be fooled by the location; that's an aspiration. I'm actually not far away in Newport Pagnell...

Chris570 · Post by **Chris570** » 21 May 2012, 18:41

sooo do it

Post by **CitroJim** » 21 May 2012, 18:50

Chris570 wrote:sooo do it

Let's say my appetite is whetted Chris...

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 May 2012, 19:40

Jim cant you lend smokescreen a car from your fleet whilst you get to the bottom of this brain teezer

regards malcolm

PeterT · Post by **PeterT** » 21 May 2012, 19:52

re >>
I dont know exactly what the dealers have done but the first things i would have done would be to update the software in both the gearbox & engine ECU's then reprogram the clutch & gearbox auctuators. Do you know if any of the dealers tryed this ?
<<

I will phone them in the morning to ask what they did exactly.
Aylesbury Citroen did seem genuinely to be trying to assist me..

--- and yes a loan car fitted with a smokescreen would be nice whilst mine is off the road..
does it stop ENPR getting a good photo ?

I am more than a little bit puzzled by the references...

Does anyone know if the Lexia software downloaded (see another topic) will talk via a cheap ( £16ish ) odbc lead that works fine on Seats and VWs? - ie does it NEED the (£100) hardware, or will a generic lead ( that I can borrow) work ?

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 May 2012, 22:26

PeterT wrote: --- and yes a loan car fitted with a smokescreen would be nice whilst mine is off the road..
does it stop ENPR getting a good photo ?
I am more than a little bit puzzled by the references...

sorry Peter i think that must have been a senior/dyslexic moment there,

regards malcolm

PeterT · Post by **PeterT** » 22 May 2012, 13:58

re >>
I dont know exactly what the dealers have done but the first things i would have done would be to update the software in both the gearbox & engine ECU's then reprogram the clutch & gearbox auctuators. Do you know if any of the dealers tryed this ?
<<

I have just rung/chased and been assured they have fully updated the software.

There is a second hand sensodrive gearbox out of a being-scrapped 1.6 pluriel that is still available as an option. WOULD I just be paying about £1000 incl fitting for 'another gearbox that will go' ?

I understand that garages prefer to swap the whole unit, instead of fitting actuators - ARE they that bad to fit/change?

How long do the sensodrive gearboxes last, ie I should just stop bothering, if the option is a 50k pre-owned gearbox of unknown usage?

has anyone here got to 100,000 miles in a sensodrive car , without new actuators?

I do have an offer of diagnostics - which I am grateful for and appreciate, but still wonder what the fault codes will prove.
Can they be used to say "that pin on that cable is intermittent - change cable and satis " ?
I don't want to waste anyone's time and effort to re prove what I am being told - that it is a fault resolved by new actuators/whole gearbox..

and I assume Citroen have no issues with a car being fit or not for purpose being in this state at this age...

argh

I know this is loads of questions - but I do appreciate any gems of wisdom from other people who know about sensodrives

thank you
PeterT

French Car Forum

Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?

Re: Sensodrive C3 - a write off..?