I want a DS5!

[Jabo]

200bhp, 50mpg, 4wd, diesel hybrid! I can't wait to graduate from Uni so that I can finally afford an proper awesome car

DS5

[Xaccers]

Still not a proper citroen

[Trainman]

They look better in the metal, but I wouldn't have one, going to wait for the DS9...............he says

[Citroenmad]

Still not a proper Citroën

Nope, and I doubt there will be another.

[DickieG]

Still not a proper Citroën

Nope, and I doubt there will be another.

What is a proper Citroen?

[addo]

A car that tips its hat to marque predecessors by more than a couple of simplistic styling cues. Something with such a new take on applied technological aspects, served up on a mass-produced chassis - as opposed to a refined iteration of the commonplace - that we all exclaim "Wow! What a clever idea!"... Modularity of the H-Van's layout, articulation of a 2CV's undercarriage, fineness and light of an early Dee cabin with translucent roof - all ideas Citroën placed upon the mass market.

I have no idea what the implied car may look like; how big it may be or what it may do (purpose) but if they can produce one it will be surprising!

[CitroJim]

What is a proper Citroën?

You really should not need to ask that question Richard

LHM is the clue...

And yes Adam, you have it....

[DickieG]

What is a proper Citroën?

You really should not need to ask that question Richard

LHM is the clue...

In that instance then 99% of Tractions aren't proper Citroens and nor are 2CV's, Dyane's, H vans,,,,,,,,,,

Using the hydraulics argument is too simplistic.

Too many manufacturers are simply regurgitating old models such as the BMW Mini, VW Beetle and that mess called the Jaguar S Type. Citroen are taking a different path as shown in the adverts for the DS3, move forward, innovate, try something different. The original DS looked nothing like anything done before it, had Citroen employed the styling methods that are being described here then the DS would have looked like a tarted up Traction!

For donkeys years Citroen had been criticised that they have lost their ability to innovate,,,,,

The only manufacturer that has styling cues that work and can be traced all the way back through their heritage is BMW as each model they release is an update on the last. i.e. all have the twin headlamps, kidney grille and hockey stick rear window.

[addo]

...I can't wait to graduate from Uni so that I can finally afford an proper awesome car

No need to wait - there are Alfa 147 GTAs available at very fair prices these days. Probably the best aural ess-ee-ecks this side of a Ferrari with flat plane crank (and way cheaper, too).

[Lighty]

I think in this current climate of far to many cars being built, that Citroen do remarkably well to invent any new themes, and their cars are no longer as bland as in previous years.
I think you have seen the last of hydraulic cars though, which is so sad.

[DickieG]

I think in this current climate of far to many cars being built, that Citroën do remarkably well to invent any new themes, and their cars are no longer as bland as in previous years.

I couldn't agree more, when it comes to car styling the 80's and 90's must have been the most bland period ever, just look at the models Citroen were producing then, AX, Saxo, BX, ZX, Xsara, XM, Xantia, all of which if the front badge was removed you wouldn't have a clue who'd made them as every other manufacturers product looked exactly the same as they did.

The phrase "All modern cars look the same" is somewhat overused and out of key with reality for the present day, that phrase originated from the 80's and 90's and I know why.

I think you have seen the last of hydraulic cars though, which is so sad.

That is sad but conventional systems have caught up significantly making me wonder if the hydraulic system is worth the additional hassle.

[Xaccers]

How's your back Richard?

Hydraulics was an advancement giving a better ride, similarly with the 2CV.
When the Xantia was out it was noted how different it looked to other cars.
I think your comments about conventional systems having caught up is wishful thinking!
Other than a superior ride quility, hydraulic suspension still gives you proper dampening even if the spheres need changing, and you know when they do need changing, where as think how many cars with old conventional shocks fitted that arent doing their job anymore and are seriously extending braking distances.
When spheres get old the suspension gets firmer while when conventional shocks get old the suspension gets softer and more wooly. How many steel sprung cars that aren't very old have we heard about springs snapping on? I know of at least 5, one of them after only a couple of years, and while strut tops on Xantia's and Xm's rust through, at least you can properly assess their state and replace them in good time. A 5 year old spring that snaps looks good as new up until it goes.
Add the cost of replacement and spheres win again. Even though I've got access to spring compressors I'd get a garage to change them than take the risk myself, while with spheres I can replace the front ones in a few minutes and for less than £50!

[Citroenmad]

I think you have seen the last of hydraulic cars though, which is so sad.

That is sad but conventional systems have caught up significantly making me wonder if the hydraulic system is worth the additional hassle.

I really dont know how you come to that conclusion

So there are some steel sprung cars which ride reasonably well, though ive yet to discover one which rides as well as an XM. However, usually the soft ride comes with a negative effect on body control and can be under damped too.

However the main benefit for hydraulic systems is the self levelling, a real bonus in a large car and especially an estate car. Fine, if you dont often carry heavy loads or have a car full of people it wont be of interest. For those who do it will be a huge bonus, it keeps ride and handling almost constant. Put a large load in any normal car and it will sit on the bump stops, giving a terrible ride and usually putting the rear wheel alignment to pot, as more often than not cars take on more camber.

Our C5 estate is used as a load luger, a Laguna Tourer we had as a loan car could only carry half of the boxes of stuff and was on the bump stops, riding badly. Same with a Volvo V40 and some vans which we have had to do the same job have also been on the bump stops. Im not sure what will replace it, certainly wont be a new C5III as its too small. Possibly a Skoda Superb estate if they do one with self levelling rear suspension.

Towing is also another reason why a self levelling car is beneficial. So often you see cars down at the rear and the caravan nose down due to loading. This gives an uncomfortable ride and no doubt sacrifices the stability of the car and caravan.

Even with my C5 hatch I use the suspension to its full use, as I often carry loads or 4/5 people. Ok so I could live without it but its a feature I like. I also use the height adjustable suspension as our horses are at a farm with a particularly bad track to it.

Xac also makes a good point about snapped springs, very common on modern cars and if it goes through the tyre it can be very very dangerous. Citroen made ths suspenion as a safety feature and for comfort, it really has its many advantages. Coils and springs are very very primitive in comparison.

Most modern cars are just bubble shapes, some look ok but for me the 90s produced some of the best looking cars, not just Citroens. Some seem to have an elegance about them which is very rarely seen now.

Richard, I do sometimes wonder why you run Citroens at all. Why do you have two Xantias if you dont even like the shape of them or find other cars offer the same ride and handling features? It didn't appear that you found that with your 5series estate.

[DickieG]

How's your back Richard?

Fine thanks now fully sorted at last

Hydraulics was an advancement giving a better ride, similarly with the 2CV.

Exactly, was 40 or 50 years ago,,,

When the Xantia was out it was noted how different it looked to other cars.

At the front?

I think your comments about conventional systems having caught up is wishful thinking!

Having spent many hours day after day driving and sitting as a passenger in many different brand new cars I speak with experience

Other than a superior ride quility, hydraulic suspension still gives you proper dampening even if the spheres need changing

Eh, since when?

and you know when they do need changing, where as think how many cars with old conventional shocks fitted that arent doing their job anymore and are seriously extending braking distances.
When spheres get old the suspension gets firmer while when conventional shocks get old the suspension gets softer and more wooly.

True but therein lies the problem, conventional suspension will continue to perform for many years after it's passed it best, hydraulic suspension doesn't and can leave you stranded at the side of the road, been there had that

How many steel sprung cars that aren't very old have we heard about springs snapping on? I know of at least 5, one of them after only a couple of years, and while strut tops on Xantia's and Xm's rust through, at least you can properly assess their state and replace them in good time. A 5 year old spring that snaps looks good as new up until it goes.
Add the cost of replacement and spheres win again. Even though I've got access to spring compressors I'd get a garage to change them than take the risk myself, while with spheres I can replace the front ones in a few minutes and for less than £50!

Changing springs isn't difficult at all, too much folklore being told there, I changed a coil spring a couple of weeks ago and will be doing the same tomorrow. Yes springs snap but it's not often they leave you stranded or damage the bodywork, how many people regularly check their strut tops outside of say this forum?

I do wonder if French car manufacturers are using sub standard quality steel in their springs, loads of tales of PSA and Renault springs snapping but I can't say I've ever heard of one breaking on a BMW and I have vast experience of those being driven under the harshest of conditions.

[Citroenmad]

I do wonder if French car manufacturers are using sub standard quality steel in their springs, loads of tales of PSA and Renault springs snapping but I can't say I've ever heard of one breaking on a BMW and I have vast experience of those being driven under the harshest of conditions.

Most modern cars suffer snapped springs, some have even had recalls to put on spring catchers in case one should go. VW group cars have a big problem with this. Drive into a VW dealer and chances are there is a Polo or Passat right down one one corner due to a snapped spring.

I have seen a BMW with a snapped spring. It was a 2003 3 Series which had snapped its spring while being driven and it had gone through the tyre, the car was so low the front mudflaps was crushed between the sill and the road, the front bumper was also on the floor! They had great difficulty getting the car moved without doing further damage.

A family friend had a snapped spring on their Ford Ka a few weeks back. It was digging into the inside tyre wall and so undrivable. Well it would have been to most people, but they smeared the back of the tyre with grease and drove it to the garage

Your right, springs can be changed fairly easily, but they can leave you stranded when they go and its probably more common than a hydraulic Cit leaving you stranded due to suspension issues.

I doubt your going to convince us that our beloved Citroens are anything less than we know they are