<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alans</i>
..............however when it does let go, and I'm in "one of those moods" I find that there's a noticeable lack of conversation amongst the passengers. [:D][}:)][}:)]
Alan S [:o)]
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Pppfffttttttt!!!!!!! Damn! That was a new monitor!!!![:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Recommend me a Tyre
Moderator: RichardW
I always fit the best tyres to the back of my Xantia.
Recently my other halfs ZX needed 2 new tyres, as did the xantia. Not wanted to make 2 trips I put a set of winter tyres on the ZX - on the back.
Now that was a real hoot to drive [:D][:D] She couldn't get me out of it - there's a 2 roundabouts with an S bend between combo near our house and I must have taken 1000's of miles off the life of the tyres trying to see how far out the backend could be pushed[}:)].
Hand brake turns flew round as well...
Recently my other halfs ZX needed 2 new tyres, as did the xantia. Not wanted to make 2 trips I put a set of winter tyres on the ZX - on the back.
Now that was a real hoot to drive [:D][:D] She couldn't get me out of it - there's a 2 roundabouts with an S bend between combo near our house and I must have taken 1000's of miles off the life of the tyres trying to see how far out the backend could be pushed[}:)].
Hand brake turns flew round as well...
I'm interested in Alan's point the the country of origin is important. I don't know if it still applies but manufacturers used to make identical tyres in the UK and europe. No problem until it rained. The reason was apparently not ionly is the UK wetter but we use the stones of Chesil Beach (Which are beautifully graduated from one end to the other) for dressing our minor roads and those on the continent used the same things for dressing skidpans, and something much more abrasive for general roads. As a result tyres manufactured on the continent were of harder rubber and slid all over the place in the wet.
I thought this practice had died out with the 70's but clearly remember the owner of a BMW 318i asking me in the late 80's why his car wouldn't grip in the wet. I remembered this theory and had a look. I think the car had done 40 or 50 K by then and the original back tyres were newish looking but original and sure enough there were indications of being made in Germany. new tyres - problem solved!
One of the aspects of economy tyres that has always concerned me is the use of very hard rubber to get low friction and long life. The clever bit is to get wet weather grip as well and sadly the only real way to find out is to suck it and see.
From my point of view my BX TD estate seems fine on any old rubbish and I'm usually quite sensitive about wheels beginning to let go. Things aren't what they used to be however and I can remember having a Hillman Hunter that would not move off in the wet with part (but not excessively) worn ZX's and a Jaguar that would fishtale from the lights on reasonable Avons. those were the days!
jeremy
I thought this practice had died out with the 70's but clearly remember the owner of a BMW 318i asking me in the late 80's why his car wouldn't grip in the wet. I remembered this theory and had a look. I think the car had done 40 or 50 K by then and the original back tyres were newish looking but original and sure enough there were indications of being made in Germany. new tyres - problem solved!
One of the aspects of economy tyres that has always concerned me is the use of very hard rubber to get low friction and long life. The clever bit is to get wet weather grip as well and sadly the only real way to find out is to suck it and see.
From my point of view my BX TD estate seems fine on any old rubbish and I'm usually quite sensitive about wheels beginning to let go. Things aren't what they used to be however and I can remember having a Hillman Hunter that would not move off in the wet with part (but not excessively) worn ZX's and a Jaguar that would fishtale from the lights on reasonable Avons. those were the days!
jeremy
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Guru Meditation
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Those Vredestein's sound good-may see if I can get those locally. When my car has poor tyres I adjust my driving to compensate ie longer following distances in the wet, slower round corners etc but like you say it's still much better to have high quality tyres due to the unexpected like someone pulling out etc.
Guru Meditation.
Guru Meditation.
This has been stated before but just to add my penny's worth, I've always put my good Michelins on the rear for stability issues. Even if you lose grip on the fronts, the tendency with good tyres on the back is not to slide IMHO and experience. However, this has highlighted one thing for me: With accidents occurring due to poor tyre design, why are they allowed on the Market in the first instance. The principles associated with reasons for buying good tyres should really be an issue of law surely and may have thwarted the demise of our very own Dunlop factories here in the UK (Sorry if this offends our non-UK members [;)]).
Perhaps with the banning of poor quality imports to any country then the demand for the good quality brands might increase, thus reducing their overall price.
I drive according to the restrictions outlined by my drive train however, after this section I will certainly consider only good qaulity brands in the future. I have to say my front corner cheapies are dreadful in the wet. [:(]
Perhaps with the banning of poor quality imports to any country then the demand for the good quality brands might increase, thus reducing their overall price.
I drive according to the restrictions outlined by my drive train however, after this section I will certainly consider only good qaulity brands in the future. I have to say my front corner cheapies are dreadful in the wet. [:(]
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adrianeaton
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Just to reiterate the safety message, putting your newest tyres on the back has a couple of other advantages other than those mentioned.
Firstly, if you have a blowout you really want that to happen on the front wheels as the car will tend to understeer - which is more controllable. A rear tyre blowing out will cause oversteer - and not the kind you can collect in any kind of hurry on the public road, or at motorway speeds when this sort of thing tends to happen. By putting your newest tyres on the back you're reducing the risk of a tyre fault related failure, if not a nail related deflation!
Secondly, you can run your tyres in far more gently on the back, especially on a Citroen. My BX 16V still had the original rears on after 8 years and 56k miles! This is an extreme example, and not good practice either as they were hard as nails after that many years and the sidewalls were cracked from age, but putting them on the back till the fronts wear out and then swapping them to the front when they've probably only worn 1mm of tread away makes better economic sense to me than wearing all 4 out at once!
If you're fitting 'sticky' tyres in place of cheap and nasty and you're not replacing all 4 together be VERY careful! With very different characteristics you can find that the car will over/understeer at quite low limits depending where you put the tyres.
I fitted 4 new Goodyear Eagle F1's to the BX and have now done 12k miles on them - the fronts still have about 4mm tread left in the middle, although the outer edges have feathered from all that 'roundabout action' [:p] and they really grip! I'll be taking the car off the road for the winter soon so won't replace them till next summer, but will move the rears onto the front then.
Cheers
Adrian
Firstly, if you have a blowout you really want that to happen on the front wheels as the car will tend to understeer - which is more controllable. A rear tyre blowing out will cause oversteer - and not the kind you can collect in any kind of hurry on the public road, or at motorway speeds when this sort of thing tends to happen. By putting your newest tyres on the back you're reducing the risk of a tyre fault related failure, if not a nail related deflation!
Secondly, you can run your tyres in far more gently on the back, especially on a Citroen. My BX 16V still had the original rears on after 8 years and 56k miles! This is an extreme example, and not good practice either as they were hard as nails after that many years and the sidewalls were cracked from age, but putting them on the back till the fronts wear out and then swapping them to the front when they've probably only worn 1mm of tread away makes better economic sense to me than wearing all 4 out at once!
If you're fitting 'sticky' tyres in place of cheap and nasty and you're not replacing all 4 together be VERY careful! With very different characteristics you can find that the car will over/understeer at quite low limits depending where you put the tyres.
I fitted 4 new Goodyear Eagle F1's to the BX and have now done 12k miles on them - the fronts still have about 4mm tread left in the middle, although the outer edges have feathered from all that 'roundabout action' [:p] and they really grip! I'll be taking the car off the road for the winter soon so won't replace them till next summer, but will move the rears onto the front then.
Cheers
Adrian
Originally posted by adrianeaton
Just to reiterate the safety message, putting your newest tyres on the back has a couple of other advantages other than those mentioned.
Firstly, if you have a blowout you really want that to happen on the front wheels as the car will tend to understeer - which is more controllable.
<b>I do!! Jeepers!! I thought that was the LAST place you wanted a blowout.</b>[:0]
A rear tyre blowing out will cause oversteer - and not the kind you can collect in any kind of hurry on the public road, or at motorway speeds when this sort of thing tends to happen.
<b>When I had a rear wheel detach due to metal fatigue, it sailed past me and the car was gently controllable to a halt. What did I do wrong?</b>[:D]
By putting your newest tyres on the back you're reducing the risk of a tyre fault related failure, if not a nail related deflation!
<b>How? I don't follow the logic.</b>
Secondly, you can run your tyres in far more gently on the back, especially on a Citroen. My BX 16V still had the original rears on after 8 years and 56k miles! This is an extreme example, <i>and not good practice either as they were hard as nails after that many years <b>and the sidewalls were cracked from age</b>, but putting them on the back till the fronts wear out and then swapping them to the front when they've probably only worn 1mm of tread away makes better economic sense to me than wearing all 4 out at once!</i>
<b>Oh, that's Ok then.........</b>[?]
I must be getting old - all my 'knowledge' appears to be out of date..........[:(][:(][:(]
Just to reiterate the safety message, putting your newest tyres on the back has a couple of other advantages other than those mentioned.
Firstly, if you have a blowout you really want that to happen on the front wheels as the car will tend to understeer - which is more controllable.
<b>I do!! Jeepers!! I thought that was the LAST place you wanted a blowout.</b>[:0]
A rear tyre blowing out will cause oversteer - and not the kind you can collect in any kind of hurry on the public road, or at motorway speeds when this sort of thing tends to happen.
<b>When I had a rear wheel detach due to metal fatigue, it sailed past me and the car was gently controllable to a halt. What did I do wrong?</b>[:D]
By putting your newest tyres on the back you're reducing the risk of a tyre fault related failure, if not a nail related deflation!
<b>How? I don't follow the logic.</b>
Secondly, you can run your tyres in far more gently on the back, especially on a Citroen. My BX 16V still had the original rears on after 8 years and 56k miles! This is an extreme example, <i>and not good practice either as they were hard as nails after that many years <b>and the sidewalls were cracked from age</b>, but putting them on the back till the fronts wear out and then swapping them to the front when they've probably only worn 1mm of tread away makes better economic sense to me than wearing all 4 out at once!</i>
<b>Oh, that's Ok then.........</b>[?]
I must be getting old - all my 'knowledge' appears to be out of date..........[:(][:(][:(]
Linegeist
I entirely agree with you. I always hesitate on recommendations because I believe this subject to be a bit more complicated than is generally recognised and think that loadings on the road are relevant when considering wet grip, which can mean that a wider tyre is not necessarily an improvement.
Only 4mm left after 12,000 miles! Admittedly on the front of a BX 16 Valve but I was becoming unimpresed with a halfords tyre which must hae about the same left after 22,000 miles.
jeremy
I entirely agree with you. I always hesitate on recommendations because I believe this subject to be a bit more complicated than is generally recognised and think that loadings on the road are relevant when considering wet grip, which can mean that a wider tyre is not necessarily an improvement.
Only 4mm left after 12,000 miles! Admittedly on the front of a BX 16 Valve but I was becoming unimpresed with a halfords tyre which must hae about the same left after 22,000 miles.
jeremy
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adrianeaton
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Linegeist</i>
Firstly, if you have a blowout you really want that to happen on the front wheels as the car will tend to understeer - which is more controllable.
<b>I do!! Jeepers!! I thought that was the LAST place you wanted a blowout.</b>[:0]
If a front tyre blows your car will understeer - not ideal in a corner, granted, but on a motorway at speed you've got far more chance of collecting it without the use of 3 lanes.
A rear tyre blowing out will cause oversteer - and not the kind you can collect in any kind of hurry on the public road, or at motorway speeds when this sort of thing tends to happen.
<b>When I had a rear wheel detach due to metal fatigue, it sailed past me and the car was gently controllable to a halt. What did I do wrong?</b>[:D]
I've had a rear blow out on a Micra (yuck!) and that was OK - I suspect suspension characteristics have their part to play - and standard BX's will probably be OK with a rear failure as the car is capable of 'standing' on 3 wheels. The key point you make is that you 'gently' brought it to a halt - most people panic and jam the brakes on while heading for the hard shoulder, usually as part of the same manoeuvre.....
By putting your newest tyres on the back you're reducing the risk of a tyre fault related failure, if not a nail related deflation!
<b>How? I don't follow the logic.</b>
Sorry, bad wording - most tyres fail after a period of time/abuse. It's highly unusual for brand new tyres to fail completely. Bulges, cracking etc will appear over time. What I should have said is that you're reducing the risk of an <b>accident</b> as a result of a failure.
Secondly, you can run your tyres in far more gently on the back, especially on a Citroen. My BX 16V still had the original rears on after 8 years and 56k miles! This is an extreme example, <i>and not good practice either as they were hard as nails after that many years <b>and the sidewalls were cracked from age</b>, but putting them on the back till the fronts wear out and then swapping them to the front when they've probably only worn 1mm of tread away makes better economic sense to me than wearing all 4 out at once!</i>
<b>Oh, that's Ok then.........</b>[?]
The old cracked Michelins were on the car when I bought it - I wasn't suggesting leaving them there (I didn't) just that if you fit 4 new tyres, wear out the fronts and then swap backs to the front after 20k (say) they'll still have most of their tread (and no cracking if they're only a couple of years old).
I must be getting old - all my 'knowledge' appears to be out of date..........[:(][:(][:(]
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Quite possibly [:p][:D]
Adrian
Firstly, if you have a blowout you really want that to happen on the front wheels as the car will tend to understeer - which is more controllable.
<b>I do!! Jeepers!! I thought that was the LAST place you wanted a blowout.</b>[:0]
If a front tyre blows your car will understeer - not ideal in a corner, granted, but on a motorway at speed you've got far more chance of collecting it without the use of 3 lanes.
A rear tyre blowing out will cause oversteer - and not the kind you can collect in any kind of hurry on the public road, or at motorway speeds when this sort of thing tends to happen.
<b>When I had a rear wheel detach due to metal fatigue, it sailed past me and the car was gently controllable to a halt. What did I do wrong?</b>[:D]
I've had a rear blow out on a Micra (yuck!) and that was OK - I suspect suspension characteristics have their part to play - and standard BX's will probably be OK with a rear failure as the car is capable of 'standing' on 3 wheels. The key point you make is that you 'gently' brought it to a halt - most people panic and jam the brakes on while heading for the hard shoulder, usually as part of the same manoeuvre.....
By putting your newest tyres on the back you're reducing the risk of a tyre fault related failure, if not a nail related deflation!
<b>How? I don't follow the logic.</b>
Sorry, bad wording - most tyres fail after a period of time/abuse. It's highly unusual for brand new tyres to fail completely. Bulges, cracking etc will appear over time. What I should have said is that you're reducing the risk of an <b>accident</b> as a result of a failure.
Secondly, you can run your tyres in far more gently on the back, especially on a Citroen. My BX 16V still had the original rears on after 8 years and 56k miles! This is an extreme example, <i>and not good practice either as they were hard as nails after that many years <b>and the sidewalls were cracked from age</b>, but putting them on the back till the fronts wear out and then swapping them to the front when they've probably only worn 1mm of tread away makes better economic sense to me than wearing all 4 out at once!</i>
<b>Oh, that's Ok then.........</b>[?]
The old cracked Michelins were on the car when I bought it - I wasn't suggesting leaving them there (I didn't) just that if you fit 4 new tyres, wear out the fronts and then swap backs to the front after 20k (say) they'll still have most of their tread (and no cracking if they're only a couple of years old).
I must be getting old - all my 'knowledge' appears to be out of date..........[:(][:(][:(]
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Quite possibly [:p][:D]
Adrian
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adrianeaton
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>
Only 4mm left after 12,000 miles! Admittedly on the front of a BX 16 Valve but I was becoming unimpresed with a halfords tyre which must hae about the same left after 22,000 miles.
jeremy
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Jeremy
That's pretty impressive wear on Goodyear Eagle F1's - friends who have them on a range of cars (Vento VR6, GTi-6, Caterham) have gone through fronts in less than 7k (road use only). Mine are about half worn but will be changed well before they get to 1.6mm (legal minimum).
They are a less than ideal tyre if you want longevity but in terms of wet weather grip, nothing comes close. Considering the car does less than 3k miles a year I don't see the point in having 'hard' compound tyres like the Michelin MXV2's I took off my car because the side walls had cracked - I'd never wear them out and I don't like having tyres more than 5 years old on a car if I can help it.
Adrian
Only 4mm left after 12,000 miles! Admittedly on the front of a BX 16 Valve but I was becoming unimpresed with a halfords tyre which must hae about the same left after 22,000 miles.
jeremy
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Jeremy
That's pretty impressive wear on Goodyear Eagle F1's - friends who have them on a range of cars (Vento VR6, GTi-6, Caterham) have gone through fronts in less than 7k (road use only). Mine are about half worn but will be changed well before they get to 1.6mm (legal minimum).
They are a less than ideal tyre if you want longevity but in terms of wet weather grip, nothing comes close. Considering the car does less than 3k miles a year I don't see the point in having 'hard' compound tyres like the Michelin MXV2's I took off my car because the side walls had cracked - I'd never wear them out and I don't like having tyres more than 5 years old on a car if I can help it.
Adrian
Adrian
You're quite right. This is a performance car and if you are only doing 3000 miles per year you're going to use the performance and this will inevietably take its toll on the tyres. When looked at this way 3 years fun on a pair of tyres is perfectly acceptable. When I get my 16 valve going I'll probably do exactly the same as its likely only to be used as a toy for most of the time (unless I get one of those speed camera detectors!)
Mind you a Caterham or similar is appealing if I'm thinking of toys - could even build one . . . wondering about a de-dion rear end from one of those awful little Volvos . . . must look in the charity shops for a cheap workshop manual for one to see how it works . . . now what about Volvo's 2.3 turbo engine?
All dreams and musings I expect - but who knows?
jeremy
You're quite right. This is a performance car and if you are only doing 3000 miles per year you're going to use the performance and this will inevietably take its toll on the tyres. When looked at this way 3 years fun on a pair of tyres is perfectly acceptable. When I get my 16 valve going I'll probably do exactly the same as its likely only to be used as a toy for most of the time (unless I get one of those speed camera detectors!)
Mind you a Caterham or similar is appealing if I'm thinking of toys - could even build one . . . wondering about a de-dion rear end from one of those awful little Volvos . . . must look in the charity shops for a cheap workshop manual for one to see how it works . . . now what about Volvo's 2.3 turbo engine?
All dreams and musings I expect - but who knows?
jeremy
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adrianeaton
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The only thing that would make me sell the BX would be my wife buying me a Tiger B6 or Z100 kit for my 30th (some hope as we've just bought our 1st house and it's my 30th next month....[:p])
http://www.tigerracing.com/frames.htm
The BX lives in the garage all week and never comes out in the winter unless it's one of those dry crisp days perfect for nice cold inlet temps [}:)]
Does come in handy for trips to B&Q though - can't get half as much in the Xsara!
Adrian
http://www.tigerracing.com/frames.htm
The BX lives in the garage all week and never comes out in the winter unless it's one of those dry crisp days perfect for nice cold inlet temps [}:)]
Does come in handy for trips to B&Q though - can't get half as much in the Xsara!
Adrian
Thanks for the link Adrian, I wouldn't mind building a chassis but their body looks nice and not too expensive. Mind you their their chassis seems reasonable too and I suppose the steel would cost about £150 or more by the time it was delivered.
Must get that 16 valve done and out of the way - then there's my Rover 2000 TC then the Daimler 250 V8 Manual/OD . . probably time for a sale me thinks.
jeremy
Must get that 16 valve done and out of the way - then there's my Rover 2000 TC then the Daimler 250 V8 Manual/OD . . probably time for a sale me thinks.
jeremy