Hi all, I know this one has been done to death but could someone please recommend a tyre that is middle of the range but has good performance (or at least reasonable performance) ie I was thinking Continental Premium Contacts but the are c£50 a corner-I want to know if anybody has any recommendations for around £30-£35 corner that aren't useless in the wet.
Guru Meditation.
Recommend me a Tyre
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Guru Meditation
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Hmm now here is a topic close to my wallet, having written off my Xantia only last Thursday.
I skimped when I bought tyres for my car, fitting my excellent new Goodyear Ventura's to the front axle but left the crappy cheap tyres with 5mm tread on the rear, only two months ago. Knowing that you should always buy the best tyre you can afford that's what I did, and boy was it a good choice, the Ventura's are superb. But I thought I'd wait until autumn to replace the rear two tyres.
But I got caught out, I turned into a bend on Thursday, after it had been raining for a while, and brought all the grease up to the road surface. The front was perfect, but the back end swung round as quickly as if I'd pulled a handbrake turn on ice. Result one dead Xantia in the nearest verge.
The moral of this story you'd think is don't mix tyre's, which it is to a great extent. But I ignored my own better judgement to save a few pounds back in June and have paid for it. Take my hard earned advice, Buy the Goodyears or the Conti's or even try Vredestein Sportrac 2's, but do not ever be tempted to buy cheaper tyres, its not worth it. My next car is going to have what tyres are on it thrown straight away, and four new Goodyear Eagle Ventura's are going on.
I skimped when I bought tyres for my car, fitting my excellent new Goodyear Ventura's to the front axle but left the crappy cheap tyres with 5mm tread on the rear, only two months ago. Knowing that you should always buy the best tyre you can afford that's what I did, and boy was it a good choice, the Ventura's are superb. But I thought I'd wait until autumn to replace the rear two tyres.
But I got caught out, I turned into a bend on Thursday, after it had been raining for a while, and brought all the grease up to the road surface. The front was perfect, but the back end swung round as quickly as if I'd pulled a handbrake turn on ice. Result one dead Xantia in the nearest verge.
The moral of this story you'd think is don't mix tyre's, which it is to a great extent. But I ignored my own better judgement to save a few pounds back in June and have paid for it. Take my hard earned advice, Buy the Goodyears or the Conti's or even try Vredestein Sportrac 2's, but do not ever be tempted to buy cheaper tyres, its not worth it. My next car is going to have what tyres are on it thrown straight away, and four new Goodyear Eagle Ventura's are going on.
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Hmmm...hearing that maybe I will stretch to the contis as currently I have four different tyres, all crap brands two are virtually at the legal limit-the wet weather handling is 'interesting'. I think I'll deffo get my tyres sorted this week-I am an advocate of not compromising on tyres it's just getting round to having them done! Sorry to hear about the motor....
Guru Meditation.
Guru Meditation.
reffro -
Youre right in allways buying best tyres you can afford -
- but you've forgotten the most important rule with tyres - on ANY car :
The best pair of tyres you have on the car - MUST go on the rear wheels [:0]
- unfortunately you have learned the hard way why this rule apply [:(]
Unlike what the majority of car owners/drivers think - it's the rear wheels ONLY that decides the steering of the car at speed/curving.
It's a choice between 2 evils :
Either the bad tyres at rear makes the rear axle skid around
- ot the bad tyres at front denies the car doing anything else than moving straight ahead.
You ALLWAYS choose the latter - a rear axle skidding around is the worst situation - everything considered.
The bottom line problem is of course allways your wallet's capacity.
This is the problem most car owners have to live with - in any practical terms - you don't ground a car a couple of months - just to save up for a full set of quality tyres.
Instead you MUST adapt driving behaviour & parts fitting/repair to real life.
Youre right in allways buying best tyres you can afford -
- but you've forgotten the most important rule with tyres - on ANY car :
The best pair of tyres you have on the car - MUST go on the rear wheels [:0]
- unfortunately you have learned the hard way why this rule apply [:(]
Unlike what the majority of car owners/drivers think - it's the rear wheels ONLY that decides the steering of the car at speed/curving.
It's a choice between 2 evils :
Either the bad tyres at rear makes the rear axle skid around
- ot the bad tyres at front denies the car doing anything else than moving straight ahead.
You ALLWAYS choose the latter - a rear axle skidding around is the worst situation - everything considered.
The bottom line problem is of course allways your wallet's capacity.
This is the problem most car owners have to live with - in any practical terms - you don't ground a car a couple of months - just to save up for a full set of quality tyres.
Instead you MUST adapt driving behaviour & parts fitting/repair to real life.
I tried to get the Toyo's a while back from Mytyres, and they left me waiting a month for the tyres before admitting they don't actually have them, and weren't able to get them at all. Oh and I wanted the same size too 195/55 VR 15. Just giving you a bit of a heads-up.
I've had the Toyo's before, and the Goodyears have them beat hands down, a fraction less dry grip maybe, but in the wet(and more importantly with winter just round the corner also on snow/ice) the Goodyears are unsurpassed for a summer tyre, and they last a lot longer too.
Oh and in response to the tyres on the rear axle bit, yes you're probably right, though really the complete lack of grip would have only seen me off the road facing forwards, rather than spinning and reversing off the road at 50mph. This accident would have happened either way and was due solely to the fact I left crap tyres on the car.
I've had the Toyo's before, and the Goodyears have them beat hands down, a fraction less dry grip maybe, but in the wet(and more importantly with winter just round the corner also on snow/ice) the Goodyears are unsurpassed for a summer tyre, and they last a lot longer too.
Oh and in response to the tyres on the rear axle bit, yes you're probably right, though really the complete lack of grip would have only seen me off the road facing forwards, rather than spinning and reversing off the road at 50mph. This accident would have happened either way and was due solely to the fact I left crap tyres on the car.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by AndersDK</i>
It's a choice between 2 evils :
Either the bad tyres at rear makes the rear axle skid around
- ot the bad tyres at front denies the car doing anything else than moving straight ahead.
You ALLWAYS choose the latter - a rear axle skidding around is the worst situation - everything considered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ahem! Might I respectfully query this Anders?
1. 70% of the braking effort is carried out by the front, even given the weight transference negation of the Citroen suspension. If your worn tyres are on the front then you stand a good chance of not being able to stop in wet conditions, surely?
2. I would have thought that steering was a primary consideration in tyre grip. If you lose the front you lose everything, whereas if you lose the back but still HAVE frontal control you can at least steer into a skid and perhaps rescue the situation.
Just my thoughts Sir!
It's a choice between 2 evils :
Either the bad tyres at rear makes the rear axle skid around
- ot the bad tyres at front denies the car doing anything else than moving straight ahead.
You ALLWAYS choose the latter - a rear axle skidding around is the worst situation - everything considered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ahem! Might I respectfully query this Anders?
1. 70% of the braking effort is carried out by the front, even given the weight transference negation of the Citroen suspension. If your worn tyres are on the front then you stand a good chance of not being able to stop in wet conditions, surely?
2. I would have thought that steering was a primary consideration in tyre grip. If you lose the front you lose everything, whereas if you lose the back but still HAVE frontal control you can at least steer into a skid and perhaps rescue the situation.
Just my thoughts Sir!
Hi,
I've used Vredestein's for the last few years now.
They offer exceptional grip in the wet and good performance.
At the mo both cars are fitted with the hi-tracks, designed for wet weather, with no shortage of grip. They also aren't badly priced at £32 + VAT.
My last set lasted for 24,000 miles on the front and even longer on the back end.
Maybe these links might help:
http://www.vredestein.com/english/index.html
http://www.vwbreakers.com/images/Scan7.jpg
Andy
I've used Vredestein's for the last few years now.
They offer exceptional grip in the wet and good performance.
At the mo both cars are fitted with the hi-tracks, designed for wet weather, with no shortage of grip. They also aren't badly priced at £32 + VAT.
My last set lasted for 24,000 miles on the front and even longer on the back end.
Maybe these links might help:
http://www.vredestein.com/english/index.html
http://www.vwbreakers.com/images/Scan7.jpg
Andy
I have to agree with Anders. You should always have the best tyres on the back. If you lose grip at the back, the car will swap ends straight away.
Forget about wet handling and going round corners for a minute. Think about braking. Think about cars with "normal" braking. They have a load-sensing valve on the back brakes to stop the back wheels locking up before the fronts. The effect is the same. A locked wheel will slide - in any direction - it doesn't care which direction. Thus a locked back wheel will try and overtake the front wheels which still have some grip and can control where they're going. Why do you think car designers go to all this trouble if it isn't necessary.
Now if you think about the loss of grip being due to low tread rather than braking, you will see that the effect is the same. The back of a car without grip will try and overtake the front. If you're going round a bend, it will happen even quicker as one of dear old Newton's laws of motion take over. "A body will remain at rest or in uniform motion unless acted on by an outside force." Thus the back of a car would much rather go straight on than go around a corner. If it loses grip, that's exactly what it will do.
Now go back to the idea of the car skidding under braking. If the front wheels lock up, the car goes nice and straight, with the rears keeping things nice and tidy. Now think of the car losing grip through lack of tread depth on the front, yes the front will go straight, but things are a lot more controlled, and by taking the foot off the throttle (a natural reaction) weight is transferred to the front, and grip tends to come back. Do that when the back is coming round, and it only makes it worse.
Believe me, write to any tyre company, and they will all tell you to fit the best tyres on the back. It is a basic principle which is generally accepted in the tyre world.
Hope this helps, but I've an idea I haven't explained it very well.
Jamie
PS having read this through, it's made me think of something else. Modern cars with ABS tend to do away with the load sensing valve' letting the ABS look after things. The trouble is that if the ABS packs up, you can end up with full braking effort on all the wheels, with the rears locking up and the car swapping ends if you lock up.
Now, with hydraulic Citroen's taking their rear braking pressure from the rear suspension, maybe this isn't a problem, but now you know why malfunctioning ABS is an MOT failure. I wouldn't drive a car with malfunctioning ABS for just this reason!
Forget about wet handling and going round corners for a minute. Think about braking. Think about cars with "normal" braking. They have a load-sensing valve on the back brakes to stop the back wheels locking up before the fronts. The effect is the same. A locked wheel will slide - in any direction - it doesn't care which direction. Thus a locked back wheel will try and overtake the front wheels which still have some grip and can control where they're going. Why do you think car designers go to all this trouble if it isn't necessary.
Now if you think about the loss of grip being due to low tread rather than braking, you will see that the effect is the same. The back of a car without grip will try and overtake the front. If you're going round a bend, it will happen even quicker as one of dear old Newton's laws of motion take over. "A body will remain at rest or in uniform motion unless acted on by an outside force." Thus the back of a car would much rather go straight on than go around a corner. If it loses grip, that's exactly what it will do.
Now go back to the idea of the car skidding under braking. If the front wheels lock up, the car goes nice and straight, with the rears keeping things nice and tidy. Now think of the car losing grip through lack of tread depth on the front, yes the front will go straight, but things are a lot more controlled, and by taking the foot off the throttle (a natural reaction) weight is transferred to the front, and grip tends to come back. Do that when the back is coming round, and it only makes it worse.
Believe me, write to any tyre company, and they will all tell you to fit the best tyres on the back. It is a basic principle which is generally accepted in the tyre world.
Hope this helps, but I've an idea I haven't explained it very well.
Jamie
PS having read this through, it's made me think of something else. Modern cars with ABS tend to do away with the load sensing valve' letting the ABS look after things. The trouble is that if the ABS packs up, you can end up with full braking effort on all the wheels, with the rears locking up and the car swapping ends if you lock up.
Now, with hydraulic Citroen's taking their rear braking pressure from the rear suspension, maybe this isn't a problem, but now you know why malfunctioning ABS is an MOT failure. I wouldn't drive a car with malfunctioning ABS for just this reason!
Couldn't agree more with need for the best tyres all round. I've usually stuck with michelin but last time shod my Xantis with Conti Premiums - bit noisier than the micelins but appear to be lasting quite well. Best price I found was on www.Tyres-online.co.uk - will fit at a local dealer or come to you.
I once put Goodyear Club tyres on the front of my 1.4 ZX, thinking that the front was the best place for them (new, grippier tyres). They were awful in the wet, but at least there is some feel through the front wheels.
I eventually switched them to the back, to even up wear and help the front wheels feel more secure. It wasn't long before I had to brake hard in the rain one day (some idiot backed out of a side road onto the main road). The back wheels locked up, and I couldn't stop. Result - one bent ZX bonnet.
The moral of the story - keep the best tyres on the back (as others have said) and NEVER skimp on tyres. My ZX now wears 4 Michelin Energys. I assumed that the 'budget' Goodyear would be OK, but it was truly awful.
There are a lot of good value suppliers about nowadays, on the internet and at independant garages. Shop around and you'll get a good deal.
I eventually switched them to the back, to even up wear and help the front wheels feel more secure. It wasn't long before I had to brake hard in the rain one day (some idiot backed out of a side road onto the main road). The back wheels locked up, and I couldn't stop. Result - one bent ZX bonnet.
The moral of the story - keep the best tyres on the back (as others have said) and NEVER skimp on tyres. My ZX now wears 4 Michelin Energys. I assumed that the 'budget' Goodyear would be OK, but it was truly awful.
There are a lot of good value suppliers about nowadays, on the internet and at independant garages. Shop around and you'll get a good deal.
Just out of curiosity, where are the majority of your tyres made over there?
Here in Oz, we seem to get them from all kinds of mystic & exotic places, not ones normally associated with engineering, car performance or tyre technology & we also get the known brands as well as a lot of unknown ones from these regions.
I've seen Michelins made in Thailand and Brazil and from memory, I think even Cambodia(?).
Due to a few nasty experiences, I try to buy only from established manufacturing countries & Brands wherever possible, as a result, I have ended up with a strange mix that is by far the best set up on my BX that I've ever had. I fitted a set of Falken directionals (Made in Japan) on the front of my BX 16V which were a terrific tyre but with one fault; when I gunned it, it sent me over the white line into the oncoming traffic lane. Nobody could tell me why & it wasn't a problem if you were aware it could happen & drove accordingly. I decided recently that whilst my Michelins MX3VAs were still OK at the rear, they were getting down a bit & they reckon our drought is about to break so I'd make a "stitch in time" and upgrade the tyres.
I went back to the tyre dealer I'd got the Falkens off & asked if they had done anything about the pattern to stop this pulling to the right caper which he couldn't answer so after running through all the info I could find on various tyres, I settled for a set of Dunlop Le Mans A5 (Made in Australia) and fitted them on the front, relegating the Falken Directionals to the rear.
They must have done something right because I had to wait a week whilst they brought a set up from 2 States away, the closest they could find any. They claim to have developed these (recently released)from their motor racing program & have outsold any other tyre they ever made.
With the combination of the A5s on the front & the directional on the rear, I've never driven in a BX that handled like it; it is absolutely sensational. The front seems to do all the work whilst the rear seems to follow as if it were on rails. Chances are that these tyres in the format we get them may not be available over there, but in my case I doubt that I could get a better set up particularly if I had chosen to go with 4 of either of the brand or type I have fitted. Just one of those freaky things possibly.
Alan S
Here in Oz, we seem to get them from all kinds of mystic & exotic places, not ones normally associated with engineering, car performance or tyre technology & we also get the known brands as well as a lot of unknown ones from these regions.
I've seen Michelins made in Thailand and Brazil and from memory, I think even Cambodia(?).
Due to a few nasty experiences, I try to buy only from established manufacturing countries & Brands wherever possible, as a result, I have ended up with a strange mix that is by far the best set up on my BX that I've ever had. I fitted a set of Falken directionals (Made in Japan) on the front of my BX 16V which were a terrific tyre but with one fault; when I gunned it, it sent me over the white line into the oncoming traffic lane. Nobody could tell me why & it wasn't a problem if you were aware it could happen & drove accordingly. I decided recently that whilst my Michelins MX3VAs were still OK at the rear, they were getting down a bit & they reckon our drought is about to break so I'd make a "stitch in time" and upgrade the tyres.
I went back to the tyre dealer I'd got the Falkens off & asked if they had done anything about the pattern to stop this pulling to the right caper which he couldn't answer so after running through all the info I could find on various tyres, I settled for a set of Dunlop Le Mans A5 (Made in Australia) and fitted them on the front, relegating the Falken Directionals to the rear.
They must have done something right because I had to wait a week whilst they brought a set up from 2 States away, the closest they could find any. They claim to have developed these (recently released)from their motor racing program & have outsold any other tyre they ever made.
With the combination of the A5s on the front & the directional on the rear, I've never driven in a BX that handled like it; it is absolutely sensational. The front seems to do all the work whilst the rear seems to follow as if it were on rails. Chances are that these tyres in the format we get them may not be available over there, but in my case I doubt that I could get a better set up particularly if I had chosen to go with 4 of either of the brand or type I have fitted. Just one of those freaky things possibly.
Alan S
I have a fairly new set of Michelin Economy tyres on my 1.9BXGT - not my choice - they were on the car when I bought it.
I went into one of those hairy French bends recently that, unknown to me, tightened up on itself in TWO successive places!![:0] This sphincter twitching experience was exacerbated by a slightly damp road surface and my relative inexperience in driving Cits.
Suffice to say that the front simply started gliding gently towards the ARMCO and a fifty foot drop. I'd lost drive, traction and steering .......... on balance I think I'd have preferred a tail slide - but that could just be the adrenaline thinking.[:D]
Fortunately there was just enough grip to enable the car to scrub its way through the bend - my input was of the 'feminine but dramatic' variety, i.e screaming and useless. It was the car that got me out of that situation. I just can't help thinking that, had steering and power still been available, I could (theoretically) have driven the car out of the skid (well, I could've 20 years ago!!!! [:D][:D])
So, is Anders right? Should I apologise?? Anybody want a set of nice tyres going cheap???
I went into one of those hairy French bends recently that, unknown to me, tightened up on itself in TWO successive places!![:0] This sphincter twitching experience was exacerbated by a slightly damp road surface and my relative inexperience in driving Cits.
Suffice to say that the front simply started gliding gently towards the ARMCO and a fifty foot drop. I'd lost drive, traction and steering .......... on balance I think I'd have preferred a tail slide - but that could just be the adrenaline thinking.[:D]
Fortunately there was just enough grip to enable the car to scrub its way through the bend - my input was of the 'feminine but dramatic' variety, i.e screaming and useless. It was the car that got me out of that situation. I just can't help thinking that, had steering and power still been available, I could (theoretically) have driven the car out of the skid (well, I could've 20 years ago!!!! [:D][:D])
So, is Anders right? Should I apologise?? Anybody want a set of nice tyres going cheap???
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Linegeist</i>
I have a fairly new set of Michelin Economy tyres on my 1.9BXGT - not my choice - they were on the car when I bought it.
.......... on balance I think I'd have preferred a tail slide - but that could just be the adrenaline thinking.[:D]
Fortunately there was just enough grip to enable the car to scrub its way through the bend - my input was of the 'feminine but dramatic' variety, i.e screaming and useless. It was the car that got me out of that situation. I just can't help thinking that, had steering and power still been available, I could (theoretically) have driven the car out of the skid (well, I could've 20 years ago!!!! [:D][:D])
So, is Anders right? Should I apologise?? Anybody want a set of nice tyres going cheap???
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I dunno; I'm an old dirt racer/rally driver from years back so I feel more at home with the tail swinging around than with the front slipping out from under me.
I feel more at ease with the bloody lot going sideways & a boot full of revs under me than I do waiting for the front lift off that they go on about and this is one thing that I do miss about driving the Cit, the tail does tend to hang on pretty well, however when it does let go, and I'm in "one of those moods" I find that there's a noticeable lack of conversation amongst the passengers. [:D][}:)][}:)]
Alan S [:o)]
I have a fairly new set of Michelin Economy tyres on my 1.9BXGT - not my choice - they were on the car when I bought it.
.......... on balance I think I'd have preferred a tail slide - but that could just be the adrenaline thinking.[:D]
Fortunately there was just enough grip to enable the car to scrub its way through the bend - my input was of the 'feminine but dramatic' variety, i.e screaming and useless. It was the car that got me out of that situation. I just can't help thinking that, had steering and power still been available, I could (theoretically) have driven the car out of the skid (well, I could've 20 years ago!!!! [:D][:D])
So, is Anders right? Should I apologise?? Anybody want a set of nice tyres going cheap???
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I dunno; I'm an old dirt racer/rally driver from years back so I feel more at home with the tail swinging around than with the front slipping out from under me.
I feel more at ease with the bloody lot going sideways & a boot full of revs under me than I do waiting for the front lift off that they go on about and this is one thing that I do miss about driving the Cit, the tail does tend to hang on pretty well, however when it does let go, and I'm in "one of those moods" I find that there's a noticeable lack of conversation amongst the passengers. [:D][}:)][}:)]
Alan S [:o)]