Xantia rear spheres

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 09 Sep 2003, 02:49

As a rule of thumb - such critical seals should allways be replaced.
Been there tried it - spray of LHM from a dodgy re-used sphere O-ring.
These O-rings are so cheap anyway - that you don't want to take the chance. I allways stock a couple of seals - should I need to do some emrgency repair work.

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 09 Sep 2003, 13:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomsheppard

If you are removing spheres to replace them with new ones, A large hammer and a cold chisel may always be relied upon. The series of short, sharp shocks eventually prevail and as soon as it moves, you are home and dry. A generous smear of silicone grease on the O ring before reassembly is the key to making the job easy next time although being only hand tight to start with suggests that they should be loosened and retightened at each oil change, then they'll never stick.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Tom's method will be resorted to on this day if removal with 3rd wrench proves to be negative. [8D]

Peter Mann · Post by **Peter Mann** » 09 Sep 2003, 21:31

"but another post recomends the removal of the hydraulic pipe BEFORE any attempt to undo the sphere is made, to prevent any damage to the pipework."
There is a trap in removing/refitting the rear accumulator on the Xantia. Before unscrewing the sphere from its mounting point, the 9mmAF nut on the screw-in fitting must be captured so that it cannot rotate, or the tube that connects to the sphere will twist and rupture.
I made a special tool by cutting a 4.5mm gap in the end of a cheap 9mm ring spanner (using an angle grinder), so that the tube passes through the ring and gives the spanner extra engagement with the soft steel hex nut on the hydraulic fitting (and that way, the spanner hangs rather than falling off the nut).
I repaired the broken tube with a 3/16inch Hoke Gryolock stainless fitting (from Prochem ph 03 9543 6777). This had no difficulty closing down the ferrule 0.4mm to seal on the 4.4mm tube, and it is a beautiful quality lightweight high pressure fitting ($24 plus $15 for airbag from Perth).
Regular hydraulic (fluid power) places don't carry suitable fittings.
Anyway, this information can save Xantia do-it-yourself owners some anxiety and time.

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 10 Sep 2003, 01:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomsheppard

If you are removing spheres to replace them with new ones, A large hammer and a cold chisel may always be relied upon. The series of short, sharp shocks eventually prevail and as soon as it moves, you are home and dry. A generous smear of silicone grease on the O ring before reassembly is the key to making the job easy next time although being only hand tight to start with suggests that they should be loosened and retightened at each oil change, then they'll never stick.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hi Tom
I tried your series of short sharp shocks method on my rear nearside sphere after breaking my third tool and that was eventually great. However, I must've lost some pressure as when I came to hammer the offside, everything was loose and so I have abs. no Newtons 3rd law available to take oppose large amount of force required on. I now have a hole in offside so I can repressurise and feel the only thing left is a replacment sphere plus housing and pipes

Thregwort · Post by **Thregwort** » 10 Sep 2003, 06:12

When you finally get the sucker to move, there's just one more nasty surprise to come.
1/4 turn - (the Pleides tool does its stuff)
System depressurised, yes.
Turn a bit more (by hand? - I don't get co-operation)
Whack on the tool again and ease anticlockwise and "Wheyhey!"
Head, hair and teeshirt drenched in monster spray of fluid.
Panic rescrewing - no good (still getting a soaking) the rubber seal has fractured.
Thankfully I was wearing safety glasses.
I advise you do too.
Apparently this is caused by a really duff sphere secreting lots of fluid. It's covered in Jon's excellent info-article in Common Fixes.
As he puts it:
"If the membrane is ruptured internally, it is possible for a fair amount of LHM to spray from them giving the impression that there is still some slight pressure in the system."
Just so, Jon. Just so.

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 10 Sep 2003, 14:30

I did get a soaking from my nearside unit - went everywhere. Managed to avert it from my eyes and wasn't tempted to lick my fingers once. Now the offside's to come. Yesterday I attemted this but to no avail. I hammered the offender in pressurised mode and I was hoping I had broken the seal, but once the thing had depressurised I had absolutely nothing to hold the hydraulic unit in place while turning the sphere. I then drilled a hole all the way through the sphere, wedged the unit with some spare chisel, put a bar through the whole sphere and tried to turn. Would the blasted thing move? Not in a million man hours. I am resorting to have a go for an hour again tomorrow (yet more time off work) and if that doesn't work wqill remove pipe and susp.link rod end and remove the whole hydraulic unit with sphere attached. Get the ****er in a vice and release the darn thing. If anyone can think of anything else then I'd be most grateful but I must thank you all including Tom, Dave and Tony for their brilliance. What a forum this is full of really great people.
Anybody know if GSF will supply hydraulic pipe from hydraulic unit just in case I've already ruptured this?

Post by **Jon** » 10 Sep 2003, 15:59

no, GSF don't do it.
If your car has anti sink I THINK that the part number for the LH metal pipe from the strut is 5270A2 and its £5.97 from Citroen.

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 10 Sep 2003, 16:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jon

no, GSF don't do it.
If your car has anti sink I THINK that the part number for the LH metal pipe from the strut is 5270A2 and its £5.97 from Citroen.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Thanks Jon.
Have ordered it as a precaution although am expecting to keep with the current. Your pricing was spot on - expected £3000, an arm and a leg [}:)]
Ooh sorry, bitterness creeping in a little there.[:D]
Best wishes and thanks
Ian

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 10 Sep 2003, 23:56

That's a shame, Ian. I'm sure I could have done you a good deal on the leg, (arms currently out of stock):-) I hope that all now goes well.

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 12 Sep 2003, 00:20

Yahoo. Today I managed to get the blasted os rear sphere off with a hammer, cold chise, long length of hardened steel and a couple of wedges. The only down side was that I had to take out the Hydraulinc pipe from the unit to stop too much stressing on it.
On putting back the spheres and pipe etc I set the suspension to High and brilliant the rear suspension rose with the front. However, having gone through the various heights on returning to the maximum position, the rear suspension stayed to minimum. I've checked for leaks but to no avail. The pressure screw seems okay and I don't think I lost too much LHM. Having not been to test the breaks at a proper speed I can't tell whether these are sloppy, although the hand brake appears to need more pulling whilst the power steering seems perfect. Has anyone got a clue about this? Do I need to bleed the system (perhaps I have air somewhere)? Will there be circumstances where air has got in and I need to bleed the whole system breaks and all?

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 12 Sep 2003, 00:37

You will almost certainly not have to bleed the brakes because the air won't have gone there while you were changing spheres. You may need to lubricate the height corrector linkage which has probably stuck in the down position.

wullzip · Post by **wullzip** » 29 Sep 2003, 02:20

i have an l 94 xantia lx i canset the suspension height from min to max when started the back end goes down and then up to high and the car bounces when you go over small bump what is causing this need to fix it feeling sea sick
thanks for any help

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 30 Sep 2003, 00:54

Wullzip, can you explain a little clearer what is going on and why you need to alter the height when you start it, if thats what you are doing.
Please includ some punctuation, I don't mean to be thick or rude but it makes the text a bit easier to understand, or is it just me[:o)]
Dave

citroen al · Post by **citroen al** » 30 Sep 2003, 14:11

In our Business we use a clamp to clamp the rear cylinder because as the sphere rotates the pipe twists too and can snap !!!
a standard chain wrench is no good snap-on make one thats suitable (£40ish)if your serious however Record make a cheaper option (£16ish) however even as a professional these are not enough to remove a stubbon sphere !!! and extra leverage is required (trolley jack handle) some times leaving that sphere and paying attention to the other rear will release the pressure enough to pursue the stubbon one again !!!
I've got my times down to an average of 11 min for BX and 14 min for Xantia (inc anti sinc)done on the floor !!! however some times they can even take longer just to bleed the air out so 1/2 hr job on a sunday afternoon (mind you monday morning is fun for me cause i get called out to sort the mess) its a simple job but be carefull think before you hit with that lump hammer !!!
Regards
Al

wullzip · Post by **wullzip** » 30 Sep 2003, 14:22

sorry dave (didn't pass english)[:)]
when i start the car the back end sinks and then rises . looking at other xantias mine's goe's to high about maximum and the suspension is solid. hence the po go effect when driving.
i can lower the car to minimum height and max height and everything inbetween . do you think it might have something to do with the self leveling as it always goe's to the same height regardless of gradient of slope.
cheers for any help