Starting problems on ZX

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the_weaver
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Starting problems on ZX

Post by the_weaver »

Hi folks

I'm having some problems when starting my ZX 1.9D. It used to start straight away, but now it takes a lot more cranking than usual. The starting is uneven. It's like the engine is firing on some cylinders, but not evenly on all four. The engine seems to almost run, but then there's a period where the starter might be turning the engine, or the engine might be turning the starter. That's what it feels like, because the firing is uneven. I don't know whether to keep the starter going, or turn it off. Once the engine starts, there's a cloud of smoke, and a bit of rough running for fifteen seconds, and then it's ok. It's only the first start in the morning that's a problem. It's starts ok for the rest of the day.

On a few occasions, I've noticed a longer than usual delay, between turning the key, and the engine starting to turn. Normally, it's almost instant. The delay was only a second or two, but felt very ominous. I thought the engine wasn't going to turn at all, and then it started turning.

I'm wondering whether it's the battery. It's seven years old, so it's getting on a bit. I suppose it might be turning the engine over too slowly. The engine starts ok on some occasions, so I wonder if it's borderline on the cranking speed. Do diesel engines have to be cranked at a minimum speed to start? Can anybody tell me what the cranking speed should be, either for the ZX, or for diesels in general. I've got an idea for a method of measuring the cranking speed, so the info would be useful.

The battery would be the first suspect, but I suppose it could be the starter motor. Would worn brushes cause this?

Any recommendations for good makers/suppliers of batteries, in case I have to get a new one? I'm looking for cheap, but good, if that's possible. Are GSF or Eurocarparts batteries any good?

Paul
ZX 1.9D, 1993, 218K.
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Re: Starting problems on ZX

Post by Xantidote »

Reading your first paragraph, I'm initially thinking maybe air in the fuel line, or faulty glowplugs.

However, reading further, I agree - there shouldn't be hesitation between operating the ignition switch, and the starter spinning, so yes, the battery or starter could be suspect. Batteries can last 7-8 years, but it can't have that much life left in it now. Yes, the starter brushes could also be the problem.

I'd suggest a no cost check would be to first check the battery cables & connectors, as well as the body earthing. If there's corrosion of the cables within the battery clamps, it may not be obvious, so feel whether either gets warm after operating the starter, which would indicate bad continuity.

Martin
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the_weaver
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Re: Starting problems on ZX

Post by the_weaver »

Thanks for the reply, Martin.

I'll check those cables to see if they get warm.

I have checked the glowplugs, and they seem to be ok. I've measured the resistance with a multimeter, and they all measure as they should do. I've changed three glowplugs in the past few years, and fitted Beru ones. The other one is still the original Bosch plug.

I've checked for fuel leaks, and there isn't anything obvious. I can see some oil on the fuel pipe right at the back, at the bottom of the engine. I'll have a look at that, but it's not easy to get to. It's underneath the brake fluid reservoir, and I recently had a new brake pipe, so it could be spilled brake fluid. I tried pumping the rubber bulb and that didn't improve things.

I was thinking of measuring the battery voltage, when cranking the engine. Is that a valid test? What voltage should I be getting?

Paul
ZX 1.9D, 1993, 218K.
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Re: Starting problems on ZX

Post by myglaren »

Try taking the battery out and charging it for 24 hours and clean the terminals at the battery end, earth point and on the starter.
Costs nothing and worth a try.
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Re: Starting problems on ZX

Post by citronut »

i would try glow plugs first,

regards malcolm
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Re: Starting problems on ZX

Post by RichardW »

Check battery volts before trying to start: <12.3 it's goosed. Check voltage cranking, <10 it's goosed.
Pump the primer before trying to start, this will eliminate the fuel leak theory.
Check the plugs are actually getting voltage, then take them out, and test them off line - they need to glow right at the tip. Taking them all out is not that bad =D> Really :twisted:
If all this fails to provide any pointers, then check the valve clearances.

Puff of smoke / rough running on starting is pointing to poor combustion, either through duff plugs or lack of compression. Normally with an air leak, it takes a bit to start, but then starts and runs cleanly once it does.
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Re: Starting problems on ZX

Post by the_weaver »

Thanks for the replies.

I charged the battery last weekend, for about 16 to 24 hours. I let the battery settle for 24 hours after charging, and measured the voltage, which was 12.72V

On each day after, I checked the battery voltage, and it's always 12.6V
The Haynes manual says 12.6V is "Normal", (but not "Good", which would be 12.7V)
I've been starting the car, going for a drive etc, but the voltage was measured first, before the first start.

I measured the voltage when cranking, but I could only measure it at the cigarette lighter socket. It's 9.8V
However, it's not really a valid measurement, because there's a voltage drop between the battery and the cigarette lighter socket.

I'm getting the feeling that the battery clamps might have something to do with the problem. I've been working on the car, more than driving it, for a while now. On two occasions, I've let the battery charge go down too low to start the car. The first time was about six to twelve months ago. At that time, I took the battery off, charged it, and refitted it. The car started perfectly. However, I remember thinking that the battery posts/clamps were dirty/greasy. So, I cleaned the grease off with a cloth, and then cleaned the metal up with emery cloth, just before refitting. Last weekend, the battery needed charging again, but this time I didn't bother cleaning the posts/clamps. The car was very difficult to start. I think that cleaning the posts makes all the difference. Also, the first time I charged the battery, I cleaned the grease off. I think that must have been dirty petroleum jelly, that was there to prevent oxidation of the lead. I didn't put any back on. So, when I took the battery off for the second time, the lead is oxidising in the air, with no petroleum jelly to stop it. If all the components are covered in petroleum jelly, then you can probably disconnect the battery, charge, and reconnect it without having to clean everything.

I've read through a few car books today, and what you're supposed to do, is clean the battery posts and clamps to bright metal, with a wire brush or emery cloth. Smear the mating surfaces with petroleum jelly. After connecting up, smear the outside with petroleum jelly as well.

I also found a description or a problem, in a book, where the solenoid clicks, the dash lights dim, but the engine doesn't turn over. They say it's due to bad contacts at the battery terminals, starter motor, or earth strap. Exactly as suggested by one of the replies.

It's possible that the problem is a combination of an old battery, with less than perfect battery connectors. I think I'll have to clean up everything, as suggested in one of the replies. Every bit will help.

Paul
ZX 1.9D, 1993, 218K.
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