2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

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Millerboy79
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2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by Millerboy79 »

Hello all,
The bloody thing hasn't been happy about starting these past couple of days and I was wondering if the preheating relay circuit fault could be rectified and if so how? Is that usually a relay problem, and if so which relay is it? Or does that fault come up to signify a fault with one or more of the glow plugs? My glow plug light only flashes on for a second or two at most when the ignition is flicked on.
Cheers guys
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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by myglaren »

Have a read of this thread. Should answer your questions.

What are your symptoms?
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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by CitroJim »

May I please refer you to this thread. It deals with a similar thing.

At the current prevailing temperature it's still far too warm for much pre-heating to take place.

My first test would be to put a voltmeter on one glowplug and establish if post heating is coming into effect. I can't say for sure on the 2.2 but on the 2.0 HDi Xantia the glowplug relay is mounted on the LH Inner wing and is contained in a box about the size of two matchboxes stacked on top of each other. If you can't find it then follow the heavy wire back from the glowplugs and it'll lead to the relay.

I've yet to know of a glowplug relay fail. problems are normally with the supply to it or the feed from it. Both terminate on bare rig terminals under nuts and these can suffer corrosion and due to the high currents involved it takes only a little corrosion to make a big difference.

Another favourite is the glowplug wiring shorting to earth either because of a dead (short-circuit) glowplug or because the wiring is either chafed or a glowplug terminal is badly paced and is shorting to the cylinder head.

First test is to crack out a voltmeter and see if they're post heating correctly - or rather, to see if voltage is reaching the plugs... Disconnect them and see if there's any voltage on the feed wire to rule out a short-circuit plug.

But, having said all that, if everything is in good health on the injection side the engine should fire up quite readily with no glowplugs at all as in direct injection diesel terms it's not super-cold just yet. The plugs post-heat to help smooth cold running but the main reason is emission control.
Jim

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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by Millerboy79 »

Righto, I'll reply to both replies in one. The symptoms were more cranking than usual, and then two occasions of firing and then immediately dying. Furthermore it is always, without fail, crap when it hasn't had a chance to warm up. It is reluctant to rev, and is quite gutless when you can make it rev, so gutless in fact it will often stall or I have to slip the clutch almost to the point of burning to get it to move its cumbersome french bottom. It doesn't rev cleanly until I've managed to coax it past 2000 rpm for the first time, which can take some time. The only cure I've found so far is to either let it warm up if I'm not in a rush, or sit there with my foot flat down until it eventually creeps past 2000 rpm for the first time and then I can pull away. Even after its got past 2000 it is still as flat as a fart in a pancake and will often try to die in second when going around marginal curves.
Cheers
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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by CitroJim »

That won't be glowplugs or lack of causing that collection of symptoms. Glowplugs only assist with starting and clean running in the very immediate aftermath. If the engine is not running smoothly after av few seconds there's something else seriously amiss...

It's a 2.2 so the first port of call I'd imagine would be the swirl valve and actuating mechanism. A quick search will reveal much about this device...
Jim

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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by Millerboy79 »

I've got that on another thread, I've replaced the actuator (brand new genuine item) and tested the vacuum, both are good. However when I rev the engine over 2500 the actuator doesn't move, tried another solenoid that I know works and the actuator still doesn't move. The arm itself moves free as a bird, and if I bridge the vacuum it operates. Whatever sends the signal to the solenoid to open isn't signalling, just need to narrow it down to what sends the signal, it also has flat spots through the rev range where it holds back as if the boost is being turned off, then it boosts then holds back again, always at exactly the same revs. It's had a new turbo solenoid, cleaned egr, new map sensor and a replacement maf sensor. My suspicions lie with the maf sensor as this was second hand and off an 807 2.2 hdi, the part number on the sensor is slightly different. Economy is around 30mpg and it does on occasion produce grey smoke while driving, no difference in performance but it will smoke its tits off. It also, spasmodically when holding a constant speed, drops into limp home mode following an AP warning. And the cruise refuses to hold a set speed.
My guess is it's f$%^&d!!!! :-)
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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by KevMayer »

Citroen Service Documentation says that the conditions needed for the swirl valves to open are:-

Engine speed greater than 2100 rpm (at 80°C) (2500 rpm at 0°C)
Fuel flow injected greater than 40 mg/stroke

Could you have a faulty coolant temperature sensor ?
Cheers, Kev

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Millerboy79
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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by Millerboy79 »

Ah, funny you should mention that. I've been using a snap on solus to read the codes from le shed. One of the codes came up as cooling function fault. Checked the code online and for the citroen it led me to believe the code was for the inlet manifold runner control. Now as this didn't work with a vacuum I changed the item. However as I was changing the actuator I noticed the green plug was broken, which I assume to be the coolant sensor, and somebody had been at it before and repaired the wiring. Anybody know where I could get the plug from on it's own? Other than a scrappy which never seems to have a 2.2! Can get the sensor for around £10.
Cheers :|
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Millerboy79
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Re: 2.2 hdi C5 glowplugs

Post by Millerboy79 »

Right, I've fixed the plug and changed the sensor, to clarify I'm referring to the push in sensor with the green end. There is still no movement from the actuator when revving the engine. I'm now very confused.
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