Xantia oil change litres required

[charentejohn]

"Dont waste money buying oil for your car. Simply invest in a longer dipstick" - you see, that's the kind of lateral thinking that made britain great.

I used Forte this time and will again, I think it is trying to shift a large amount of accumulated sludge and nasty stuff (crud basically). I have some friends visiting in April, so will have done about 1k miles max by then, and they can bring me 2 lots one for immediate use and one for next time.
I used good oil this time so now it is 1k miles, forte flush then dump oil - put in reasonable priced oil and do another 200 miles or so, flush then dump oil - fill with good quality oil again. Hopefully it will stay clean by then.

I didn't mention it but the oil I took out was black and naff, like someone had put soot in it, I put it in a plastic milk bottle and when I went to check the level needed a strong light just to see through it. Forte dislodged the stuff but I think I need more oil changes to remove the muck. So I might just run another lot of cheaper oil through to shift this stuff asap.

Now that I think about it I hope the filter is stopping this stuff circulating, or are the particles too small ? Hopefully they are just lying in the sump and not grinding my metal surfaces.

[CitroJim]

Black oil in a diesel John, is totally normal and even a clean engine will soon blacken its oil after a change. All diesels (all engines - not just diesels) suffer some blow-by and in a diesel this will be a bit sooty due to the nature of the diesel combustion process. The fact your oil is nice and black shows its detergent additives are doing their job of holding the soot in suspension. It's not dangerous and it will pass the filter - the particles themselves are very, very small.

I'll bet if you stripped your engine you'd be surprised at how clean it really is - again showing the detergents are doing their job.

Just to show how effective oil detergents are I have blue industrial carpet tiles in my workshop. Well, they were blue once but now they're mostly black However, one day I split some LT71141 ATF (auto gearbox oil) on to one particular tile and in no time at all it came back bright blue, the original colour of the tile! I've since done the same test with diesel engine oil and achieved the same result.

My test of diesel oil health is to dip the oil and look at the blob of oil on the end of dipstick. If it's nice and firm and plump and the rest of the dipstick is spotlessly clean then OK. Worn oil will result in a limp, flat bubbly blob and a thin film of dirty streaky oil all the way up to the top of the dipstick.

[charentejohn]

Good point, I hadn't head the check dipstick oil test before. It makes sense though and my oil is just as you said, solid blob on the end and I have to turn the stick in the light to see the max level as it has all run to the end leaving just a thin smear. Good recommendation of how to do a quick oil condition test if you think it is not right.

I know diesel oil blackens quickly but I thought this might last longer as some people said HDIs tend to stay clear-ish for a week or so. I assume that is for well cared for engines and I don't think this is one of them. It hasn't been badly neglected but hasn't recieved scrupulous servicing either. I think the last owner did look after it, via a garage, but it has not exactly had oil changes at less than required intervals.
I am also guessing the Forte (only used for 40 mins on tickover as in instructions) continued loosening some sludge after it was removed, so that has ended up in this oil. Makes sense as the instructions were basically 20 mins for regularly cleaned engines and 40 mins for first time use. I think first time use at 40 mins was if the engine had had correct oil changes up to then, I think I should have left it in longer / gone for a short drive. I will PM Chris to see if this sounds right.

[Citroenmad]

The oil in my HDis, particularily the 110 8v stays nice and golden for a good 1000, even after that it taks a good few thousand miles to get it black - which will always happen in a diesel. If you have black oil in a petrol its in need of a long overdue service!

With our 110HDis I can tell if its getting near a service as the engine gets noisier. Our 2.0HDi 90bhp Peugeot 206 was the worst for this, I always let that car run to 12500 (correct service interval) miles before an oil change as it did a lot of annual miles and I didn't like servicing it Squeazing a 2.0HDi into a 206 is a snug fit!

Replying to your PM now ..

[charentejohn]

Just an update on this as I have just changed the oil again. It was very black and I just couldn't stand it any more.

I drained and added 4.5L which just covered the bottom of the dipstick, about 1/5th of the way up.
As I only used the marks on the oil can to gauge 4.5l this may have been a bit out.
I then added 200ml (accurately measured) and it came to about half way between min and max. 200ml is nothing when you see it an a jar so seemed reasonable to add that much
Previously people have said they used 4.8 or 5L so no problem, in measuring 4.5l via oil can markings I could have been this much out. I had a 5L can of oil, next time I will buy a 4.5L one on the basis that it should be accurately measured.

So all in all a result, I am happy that this is a good oil change as regards level.

Other good news is that after a 40 mile round trip oil is still clear so I will nmonitor it to see how long it takes to darken.
Previously I had used Forte flush and still believe it was still in the process of dissolving gunge after the oil change. Hence it going black immediately.
With other diesels I have had the oil usually turns black within a few miles so so far so good.

[Citroenmad]

Every diesel will blacken its oil quite quickly, however the 8v HDi seems to stay clean for many miles if its had a flush in it. I did our 8v HDi a couple of weeks ago, after almost 1000 miles its still quite fresh looking and not yet black. This car has had oil changes every 6K miles throughout its life and has been Forte flushed over the last 3 years too, again serviced every 6K miles.

I find my 16v HDi does darken its oil quicker than the 8v HDi, but its done around 1500 miles since its last oil change and is still brown, rather than black on the dipstick.

I always use Citroen filters, however £13 for an 8v oil filter was steep, think ill source those elsewhere! Got one for the Xantia 2.0TCT too, along with an air filter for my 16v C5. Think I spent over £50 on three filters

[Dommo]

I always use Citroën filters, however £13 for an 8v oil filter was steep, think ill source those elsewhere! Got one for the Xantia 2.0TCT too, along with an air filter for my 16v C5. Think I spent over £50 on three filters

Buy in bulk off eBay, just get the part number and sometimes searching for that works, even if its a Peugeot branded filter as mine currently are, theyre the same thing!

[addo]

Sssh! Don't spoil a good thing for the rest of us.

[charentejohn]

I bought my filters here for £6.50, there are 3 manufacturers on offer for my model from Oscaro.fr but the ones I bought have the correct OEM number. I am assuming this means they are the same spec. as original.

I think my oil was black because it was the first flush I used so there was 125k miles of accumulated gunge to shift. Having removed almost all of it now (I hope) future flushes should produce little rubbish as most of it is in an old oil can now ready for taking to the dump.

Looks like diesels produce a lot of black soot / tar that builds up in the engine, more than petrol. This is no doubt why they tend to blacken the oil fast once they are older as it builds up in the 'corners' and contaminates new oil. My guess would be another two flushes, at normal oil change intervals, to remoce it all.

[addo]

Purflux make some nice filters - I buy them in bulk as they even fit the Alfa. I understand they are an OEM supplier for some items to PSA. Tecafilter are definitely an OEM supplier of some airfilters, not sure about oil filters for them.

[CitroJim]

I get them in bulk too. Once I bought a load from GSF when the price was good and they asked if I was in the trade.

I guess I should have tried saying yes...

[HDI]

I've had a similar issue with my HDi 110. The first oil change I did, I just filled it until it reached the max mark on the stick, and though it odd it took well over 5 ltrs but didn't have the owners handbook to check the quantity. A few days later I was in a hurry and getting a move on up hill, I lifted off for a slower moving car and the engine didn't slow down ! Looked in the mirror and there was a haze of blue smoke in my wake ! Realising what was happening I managed to get the engine to slow down and then backed off to about 50 mph. Emergency over, I just knew it was running on it's own oil so I checked the correct amount of oil it should have and found it to be 4.3 ltrs. When I put this amount in it just didn't register on the stick ! Eventually I discovered the engine had the wrong stick for some reason, so I ordered a new one. Even with that one though, 4.3 ltrs JUST reaches the bottom of it ! Anyway, I now just measure 4.3 ltrs in at every change and know to add some when I don't see any on the stick, everything has been fine since then.

[Citroenmad]

I often get a good few from Malcolm Lockwood at CCC events, though obviously I didn't stock up enough

[CitroJim]

My HDi takes precisely 4 quarts on a change. With a new dry filter (yes, I've bought lots from Mr. Lockwood too) the klevel comes out just perfect...

I have a old-fashioned tin quart jug for oil and it's absolutely perfect for the job.

[myglaren]

My HDi takes precisely 4 quarts on a change. With a new dry filter (yes, I've bought lots from Mr. Lockwood too) the klevel comes out just perfect...

I have a old-fashioned tin quart jug for oil and it's absolutely perfect for the job.

Quarts Jim?
Have you emigrated to Gringolanda and not mentioned it?