Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

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Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by GB »

Sorry to start another forum topic on tyres, but I couldn't find any answers to my question.

Has anyone tried the latest Pirelli P7 Cinturato tyres? On a C5?

Just got a slow puncture the other day (Michelin Primacy HP 215/55 R16 93W), and since the rear tyres are almost at the tread mark I'm in the market for a set of new summer tyres - have winter tyres at the front, and still waiting for a blizzard this winter. :)

So as usual I start my tyre search from reading ADAC, AutoBild and Autozeitung extensive tyre test reports. Usually it is Michelin and Continental at the top of their charts, however, for the past couple of years Pirelli P7 Cinturato gets much better reviews than Michelin HPs. Continental PremiumContacts also get great reviews, except for the rolling resistance (P7 Cinturatos are supposedly fuel saving). I've used Michelin Primacy HPs for the past three/four years now, and they were great except for comfort.

I can get four P7 Cinturatos 215/55 R16 97W (reinforced) fitted locally for £520. Michelin HPs in the same size are around £600.

Any advice?

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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Citroenmad »

Ive been looking at reviews and tests of the P7 Cinturato too, they do seem very strong performers. I have not used them myself though, I always stick to Michelins with C5s, I have tried other brands in the past but none have been quite so good all rounders.

Why do you use 97 load rated tyres? Im pretty sure all our C5s have 93 rated tyres and ive not found a more comfortable tyre than the Michelin primacy HPs. Certainly not the Goodyear Excellence, far too stiff.

Ive not used Continentals on C5s but on other cars ive used them on they have always given a good ride quality, though I did seem to scrub through them quite quickly.

Michelins are my chosen tyre, they grip well, they are quiet, offer a good ride and last the longest too. Im happy with mine, though if there is a better tyre or one which gets god reviews I do tend to try them.

All of our C5s are on Michelins at the moment, the two 16vs have HPs and th 8v has energy's. With the reviews the P7s get id be tempted to try them, though hopefully they wont give a bad ride quality, as that is rarely mentioned in tests.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by GB »

Citroenmad wrote:Why do you use 97 load rated tyres? Im pretty sure all our C5s have 93 rated tyres and ive not found a more comfortable tyre than the Michelin primacy HPs. Certainly not the Goodyear Excellence, far too stiff.
Currently I use Michelin Primacy HP with the standard 93 load rating. I find their sidewalls way too soft, and run them at 39PSI instead of the recommended 36PSI (2.5 bar front). When driving in continental Europe I go for 40-41PSI (at least two road trips each year, about 7000 miles) - this helps to keep the tyre temperatures relatively "low", but then makes city driving quite uncomfortable. About three years ago I tried 37PSI driving in Germany and after about 2 hours of continuous 90-110mph the tyre sidewalls were so hot that I could smell the rubber when stopped at a petrol station (this is with a family of four and 150kg of luggage on board).

My understanding is that a tyre with a higher load rating doesn't need to have the air pressure raised as much to compensate for high speed driving. The sidewalls apparently are not that much stiffer anyway as most of the extra weight carrying capacity comes from their ability to be inflated to higher pressures. Unfortunately load index is not a sidewall strength/stiffness indicator, it just refers to load carrying capacity, so I guess the only way to find out how comfortable they are is to try them.
Citroenmad wrote:Michelins are my chosen tyre, they grip well, they are quiet, offer a good ride and last the longest too. Im happy with mine, though if there is a better tyre or one which gets god reviews I do tend to try them.
All of our C5s are on Michelins at the moment, the two 16vs have HPs and th 8v has energy's. With the reviews the P7s get id be tempted to try them, though hopefully they wont give a bad ride quality, as that is rarely mentioned in tests.
I've been quite happy with Michelin HPs - excellent dry and wet grip, great longevity. Bought a set three or four years ago, and back then they were one of the best summer tyres available. However, things have definitely moved on since then, and compared to some newer tyres HPs simply don't perform as well (according to tests, especially comfort and rolling resistance) so I'm very tempted to try something else.

Still undecided, but I'm very tempted to try P7 Cinturatos, especially given the £80 a set price difference - that's almost a full tank of motion lotion!

Continental PremiumContact is also a possibility but their relatively poor longevity and high rolling resistance are a deal breaker for me.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Citroenmad »

A very interesting experience, also interesting that you use a higher pressure.

I run mine with the standard 36PSi front and 32PSi rear, I find it is fine however I do scrub the shoulders off the tyres and when pushing on the tyres roll onto the sidewalls more than other tyres Ive used on C5s. Though you do have to be pushing it and under normal conditions they are fine and, I think, very comfortable.

I took my C5 to France last summer and I upped my tyre pressures to 38 front and 35 rear. The extra pressure seemed ideal for the higher speeds and load which was in the car. Though I took a small tyre pump with me and deflated them back to normal 36/32 once I had got to our two week location, as the low speed ride was slightly effected by the increased pressures.

Our estate carries heavy loads all of the time, I set that ones pressures to 36 front and 38 rear, the HP tyres have worn very evenly. I did try for a bit more pressure for a while but the middles started to wear faster.

I actually liked the previous Michelin Primacy Pilots a bit better than these HPs, a good ride but the sidewall was able to cope with higher cornering speeds. They did have a tendancy to perish though.
Have you seen there is a replacement out for the HPs? Not sure if its out yet but if not its coming out very soon.
I cant find it on the Michelin website but did spot it in an autoexpress recently.

Ive used oponeo tyre website quite a lot for tyres, they have a very good selection at good prices. They are listing Michenlin Energy Savers for our C5s size, but V rated. I didn't even know they were available in that size, have not seen them previously. Agaian though, quite soft in the sidewall but suit Citroens well I think. We have those on our XM and eldest C5 and im quite happy with them.
They are listing Pirelli P7 Cinturato 93Ws on there for £103 each delivered, that is very good value. Or the 97W XL for £112.

Id be tempted by the Pirelli and I might well choose another tyre next. Trouble is ive got a good supplier of Michelin Primacy HPs and can't get any other decent tyre cheaper, when they are good tyres it doesnt make sense to pay more for a tyre which might not suit the car as well. I like to stick with Michelins as that is what the cars should have on them. Though I would be tempted by those Pirellis, as I do like Pireli tyres and have never had a problem with them in the past. P6000s are a little iffy when they age but I believe the more modern P6000s have been reworked and are better. Had those on two Xms and they were very nice.

Out of interest, what winter tyres have you got?

Ive got Firestone Winterhawk Evo 2s on mine at the moment, seem decent tyres but I kind of wish I had not bothered now, there has been no winter to speak of yet. In fact im tempted to put my Michelin summer tyres back on and have my C5s nice wheels back on it again.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by GB »

Citroenmad wrote:I took my C5 to France last summer and I upped my tyre pressures to 38 front and 35 rear. The extra pressure seemed ideal for the higher speeds and load which was in the car.
I wouldn't even bother with changing tyre pressures for French motorways. :wink: Nothing special. Same around Europe really. However, once you cross the German border... OMG. Surely there are some sections of very old and crappy autobahns with 120kph speed limits, but most are just butter smooth with wide lanes and beautifully profiled bends. 90mph feels just sooo slow. You really have to watch your rear view mirrors for those 250kph BMWs/Audis/Mercs. And you don't watch the speedometer at all, just the fuel gauge. :-D
Citroenmad wrote:Have you seen there is a replacement out for the HPs? Not sure if its out yet but if not its coming out very soon.
I think I have to make a move this week - had a look at the punctured tyre earlier today, looks like it is beyond repair as both rear tyres are now heavily worn out (almost at the tread marks). I find Primacy HPs wear out much faster in winter - they feel quite soft and fragile in low temperatures. On top of that both rear HPs had problems with loaded force balance and lateral runout for the past couple of years - both rear HPs were made in Spain, both front HPs were made in France and never had any problems.
Citroenmad wrote:They are listing Pirelli P7 Cinturato 93Ws on there for £103 each delivered, that is very good value. Or the 97W XL for £112.
blackcircles.co.uk offer them fitted for £125 and £137 respectively, and I am sure they can be bought for less. I just can't be bothered with buying online and then taking them to my local garage for fitting - there are a couple of tyre places locally, but they are managed and run by some space cadets who charge £20-25 per wheel, and yet can't even attach a wheel properly (destroyed my wheel lock nuts with a rattle gun last year, still don't understand why they took the wheels off for MOT), and think that proper tyre balancing is a witchcraft. I also want to avoid a mobile fitter - they can never seem to balance wheels properly, either poorly calibrated equipment or just CBF.
Citroenmad wrote:Out of interest, what winter tyres have you got?
Goodyear Ultragrip 8 (front only) - no blizzards this winter, but I still reckon money well spent. Michelin HPs were simply useless in -2º and a bit of ice (almost a daily occurrence here in Henley-on-Thames during November and December).
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by GB »

Wrote to Pirelli the other day about reinforced tyres - their reply:
We would not suggest replacing the tyre with a higher load index if this is not standard to the original equipment on the vehicle. The high load tyre does not mean that the wall of the tyre is any stronger as it depicts that the whole tyre structure is different.
The idea when replacing tyres is to change them like for like for the original equipment designed for the vehicle as this has been tried and tested by the vehicle manufacture.
Anyway, also received this very useful tyre info: Replacing car tyres - important considerations

There are tons of useful info from the British Tyre Manufacturers Association here.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Citroenmad »

GB wrote:wouldn't even bother with changing tyre pressures for French motorways. :wink: Nothing special. Same around Europe really. However, once you cross the German border... OMG. Surely there are some sections of very old and crappy autobahns with 120kph speed limits, but most are just butter smooth with wide lanes and beautifully profiled bends. 90mph feels just sooo slow. You really have to watch your rear view mirrors for those 250kph BMWs/Audis/Mercs. And you don't watch the speedometer at all, just the fuel gauge. :-D
Yes, little point in increasing the pressure for 'normal' speeds. :lol:
GB wrote:I think I have to make a move this week - had a look at the punctured tyre earlier today, looks like it is beyond repair as both rear tyres are now heavily worn out (almost at the tread marks). I find Primacy HPs wear out much faster in winter - they feel quite soft and fragile in low temperatures. On top of that both rear HPs had problems with loaded force balance and lateral runout for the past couple of years - both rear HPs were made in Spain, both front HPs were made in France and never had any problems.
I can't say ive noticed an increase in tyre wear during the winter when using Michelin HPs, They are ok to use through winter I find, though not as good as some Toyo T1-Rs the previous year on a C5, they were new though and the V groved tread no doubt helped grip the snow better than the plain looking Michelins.

I think all my HPs are ones made in Spain, maybe.
GB wrote:blackcircles.co.uk offer them fitted for £125 and £137 respectively, and I am sure they can be bought for less. I just can't be bothered with buying online and then taking them to my local garage for fitting - there are a couple of tyre places locally, but they are managed and run by some space cadets who charge £20-25 per wheel, and yet can't even attach a wheel properly (destroyed my wheel lock nuts with a rattle gun last year, still don't understand why they took the wheels off for MOT), and think that proper tyre balancing is a witchcraft. I also want to avoid a mobile fitter - they can never seem to balance wheels properly, either poorly calibrated equipment or just CBF.
Ive been very happy with using online tyre places. I have a local tyre place who happily fits and balances tyres for £5 per wheel. Though I don't like having garages jack up my car so I usually take the wheels down in another car. I don't mind doing this and then I know my car remains undamaged and gives me a chance to give the car a check over too.

C5 wheels do seem a bit hard to balance, ive had to get a few rebalanced striahgt away. Though I did use a different tyre place then, this one has been fine.
GB wrote:Goodyear Ultragrip 8 (front only) - no blizzards this winter, but I still reckon money well spent. Michelin HPs were simply useless in -2º and a bit of ice (almost a daily occurrence here in Henley-on-Thames during November and December).
We have had very little winter, its not been that cold but the road are very greasy - don't think the winter tyres I have are any better in these conditions here, in fact I think I prefer my summer tyres. The temperature is around 10+ during the days, so it is a big higher than recommended for winter tyres. I find tyre noise is very similar to the summer tyres, which is impressive. Im just dissapointed we have not had any snow :lol:


Good of Pirelli to get back to you, so I guess you won't be going for the extra load tyres now?
I tend to stick with softer brand tyres, especially on C5s, as ive driven a few with steering rattles. I had one like this and it occured over 3000 miles after using XL tyres. I replaced them with some Goodyears and the rattle went.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Diabolical »

I have Pirelli P7 non-Cinturato 205/50/16 on Alfa alloys fitted to my CX GTi Turbo 2 and find the handling far better than the Michelin TRX that are standard for that car.
Previous use of Pirelli is they wear very fast, So I wouldn't use them for a high mileage car. Saying that Cinturato may be harder wearing.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by isisalar »

I don't know much about these new cinturato's but the 1970's ones were absoloutely dreadfull in terms of roadholding. At the time, I was working at a Reliant Scimitar dealership and I ended up facing work on the way home on more than one occasion ,whilst on Pirrelli Cinturato's.
It was an accepted fact at the dealership that Cinturtato's were an accident waiting to happen and as far a\s I know no one was ever punished for crashing a car thus shod.
Wouldn't happen today.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Citroenmad »

Ive read good things about the normal P7s and they seem popular on Activas too. Today ive bought a pair of Pirelli P7 (normal ones) from an online place for the front of my Activa, so ill give them a good testing when they arrive/I get them fitted and report back.

The Cinturato seems to be the 'energy' option which is better on fuel eocnomy and wear. Some say low rolling resistance tyres must have less grip, though ive always been very happy with Michelin Energy tyres. 4 of our cars have Michelin Energy's and they suit each car very well, grip is good, nice and quiet, last well and seem to compliment the ride too.

Ill be interested to see how these P7s fair on the Activa, as the one complaint I have of Michelins is the soft sidewall. I swapped the ones on my Activa to the rear as they were scrubbing the edges very quickly due to the tyre flexing under. P7s seem a little stiffer.

A P7 being tortured Activa style:
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by GB »

Citroenmad wrote:Good of Pirelli to get back to you, so I guess you won't be going for the extra load tyres now?
Going ahead with standard load tyres - sent an email to a friend of mine (a tyre and suspension engineer at General Motors Holden) and he confirmed my suspicion: reinforced tyres have slightly stiffer side walls, where most of the extra weight carrying capacity come from higher pressure, and with some designs you have to run them at significantly higher pressures at all times. His advice was to stick with standard load tyres and just pump them up slightly above the recommended pressure.

Placed an order with blackcircles today - fitted Pirelli P7 Cintuaro 215/55 16 93w at £124 each. Their website was driving me crazy with their prices changing three times a day. Two days ago they were £129, then yesterday £141 (£4 more than reinforced), then £124, and ten minutes ago £131 - it's almost like Ryanair airfares. :)
Diabolical wrote:Saying that Cinturato may be harder wearing.
According to ADAC test report P7 Cintuaros are one of the top wear resistant tyres. Time will tell I guess.
Citroenmad wrote:Some say low rolling resistance tyres must have less grip, though ive always been very happy with Michelin Energy tyres. 4 of our cars have Michelin Energy's and they suit each car very well, grip is good, nice and quiet, last well and seem to compliment the ride too.
I've been happy with Michelin Primacy HPs on my C5, but it seems that tyre technology has really moved on - Primacy HP and Energy were the top picks four/five years ago, but now they are way behind the competition.
Pirelli P7 Cinturato test results
Michelin Primacy HP
Michelin Energy Saver


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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Citroenmad »

GB wrote:
Citroenmad wrote:Good of Pirelli to get back to you, so I guess you won't be going for the extra load tyres now?
Placed an order with blackcircles today - fitted Pirelli P7 Cintuaro 215/55 16 93w at £124 each. Their website was driving me crazy with their prices changing three times a day. Two days ago they were £129, then yesterday £141 (£4 more than reinforced), then £124, and ten minutes ago £131 - it's almost like Ryanair airfares. :)
I've used oponeo tyres online quite a few times, their prices differ every hour too, often by as much as £30-40 a tyre! I almost bought Michelin Alpin A4s for £118 each, I went on again to buy them and they were almost £150!
The Firestone Winterhawks I ended up with went from £89 when I bought them to being the most expensive tyre on there at £155 :shock: Then back to a much lower price, don't know how they manage to fluctuate so much.
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Re: Pirelli P7 Cinturato?

Post by Citroenmad »

GB wrote: According to ADAC test report P7 Cintuaros are one of the top wear resistant tyres. Time will tell I guess.
Citroenmad wrote:Some say low rolling resistance tyres must have less grip, though ive always been very happy with Michelin Energy tyres. 4 of our cars have Michelin Energy's and they suit each car very well, grip is good, nice and quiet, last well and seem to compliment the ride too.
I've been happy with Michelin Primacy HPs on my C5, but it seems that tyre technology has really moved on - Primacy HP and Energy were the top picks four/five years ago, but now they are way behind the competition.
Pirelli P7 Cinturato test results
Michelin Primacy HP
Michelin Energy Saver
Both the Michelin tyres get excellent review percentage ratings considering the miles covered collectively,

HP: data from 82 tyre reviews averaging 75% over 1,956,058 miles driven.
Energy: data from 34 tyre reviews averaging 83% over 601,559 miles driven.
Cinturato P7: Below is data from 12 tyre reviews averaging 83% over 129,500 miles driven.

Unlike the Pireli P6000 which often gets slated: 103 tyre reviews averaging 55% over 1,492,476 miles driven.
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