MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

mirafioriman
Posts: 356
Joined: 15 Jan 2011, 23:35
Location:
My Cars:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by mirafioriman »

Well unless the regulations have changed its 25% for single systems and 16% for dual systems so 11% should have been a fail.

Just checked online and it's still saying 16% for dual systems so looks like the tester didn't know the rules!
Former Proud owner of a 1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9d and BX 19RD

Now driving an Alfa 159 but god I miss the Xantia!
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by citroenxm »

Xsaras like most lesser cars with servo brakes have a load sensing valve on the rear.. Common for siezing up...i guess its connected to the anti roll bar simmilar to the roll bar clamp on the xantias

paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
DHallworth
Donor 2023
Posts: 2382
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 17:05
Location: Glasgow
My Cars:
x 119

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by DHallworth »

If the Xsara is like the 306's at the back then I suspect the estate might have a load sensing valve at the back so if the cars empty it's not putting much pressure on the brakes.

I'd chuck 4 or 5 bags of sand in the back and take it for a spirited run using the brakes a lot and see if the disks look any cleaner/shinier when you get home first of all.

David.
'98 Xantia Activa V6 :-D
'00 XM V6 Exclusive
'09 C5 2.7 HDi Exclusive
‘10 C5 3.0 HDi Exclusive
'12 C6 3.0 HDi Exclusive
'15 C4 BlueHDi Feel
handyman
Posts: 1107
Joined: 20 May 2003, 18:38
Location: In the clouds in the Land of South Saxons
My Cars:
x 2

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by handyman »

Yep, Davids hit the nail on the head. As the brake bias is always on the front of these lightweight cars, its always worth putting some deadweight in the boot at MOT time. If everything checks out mechanically with your rear brakes, leave some weight in the boot when you go for a retest. I always put in two bags of cement in the boot of the ZX at MOT time, its yet to fail on rear brakes.

If you are not sure about changing joints, leave well alone unless you have somebody experienced looking over your shoulder and you have the right tools to undertake the job, ie splitters, etc.

Handyman
User avatar
dandare1980
Posts: 60
Joined: 15 Oct 2011, 09:58
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by dandare1980 »

The rear load sensing valve had seized on my other car, a Mk1 Xsara, the last time it went in for MOT. Managed to free it with a bit of lube and it passed ok.

I will certainly try the weight in the boot trick and will check the rear load valve for operation.

My wife's Xsara doesn't run up the mileage and she carries little weight, so think it may be worth taking it for a drive with some weight on board like people have suggested.

Thanks for your comments, got to start on the track rod ends in a moment, if I don't get blown down the street first by the wind........it's terrible today 8-[

Dan.
1998 Citroen Xsara 1.9 D Estate (XUD9A indirect injection engine DJY with Bosch XUD 211 injection pump).
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by CitroJim »

dandare1980 wrote: if I don't get blown down the street first by the wind........it's terrible today 8-[

Not been good has it :) Hope the weather at least allowed you to get some of the work done Dan.

All this talk of a compensator valve might be a red herring if the footbrake test passed OK at the back - or have I missed something? It'll make no difference to the handbrake efficiency...

Malcolm, you make a point that the handbrake mechanism must release fully to allow the automatic adjusters to work. Presumably then, if the cables are tight or seized then the mechanism can never fully release and this the automatic adjustment fails to be made...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by citronut »

CitroJim wrote: Malcolm, you make a point that the handbrake mechanism must release fully to allow the automatic adjusters to work. Presumably then, if the cables are tight or seized then the mechanism can never fully release and this the automatic adjustment fails to be made...
this seems to be the case with all hand brakes on disc brakes as far as i have seen,

regards malcolm
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

I can imagine the self-adjusters not taking up, if there's insufficient hydraulic pressure to really clamp onto the discs hard.
User avatar
dandare1980
Posts: 60
Joined: 15 Oct 2011, 09:58
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by dandare1980 »

Ok, just got back from my father-in-law's (self employed mechanic who prepares rally cars).

Handbrake cables appear fine, disconnected them at the caliper and at the handbrake lever and they both move freely.

The levers on the rear calipers both appear to travel through their entire range and do not appear to be sticking.

We've sanded/cleaned up the corrosion on the discs/pads and refitted them. The discs are flat with no pitting and the pads are in good condition so my father-in-law couldn't see what fitting new ones would achieve.

After readjusting the hand brake mechanism, the brake is operating better, but not great. I can still pull off with the handbrake fully engaged.

It will now hold me on steep hills, but has little effect at slowing the car down if applied whilst travelling at around 15 mph.

I just hope to hell it's enough to get beyond the 16% required efficiency at the MOT retest tomorrow.

If it still can't pass, what options am I left with? Will I need new calipers?

Thanks again for all the input.

Dan.
1998 Citroen Xsara 1.9 D Estate (XUD9A indirect injection engine DJY with Bosch XUD 211 injection pump).
artdjones
Posts: 34
Joined: 04 Dec 2011, 20:45
Location: County Cork
My Cars: Citroën C5 1.6 HDi 2005
Peugeot 307 1.6HDi Estate 2005
Peugeot 205GL 1.1 1991
x 1

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by artdjones »

It's hard to check whether handbrake cables are ok or not.They can be free when disconnected but seize up under load.I generally check the calipers first.With the cables disconnected from the caliper you can attach a set of grips to the lever on the caliper the cable attached to.Then try to turn the hub with a long prybar between two screwed in wheel boltswhile pushing the caliper lever towards the front of the car with the grips.If the hub is locked then the caliper on that side is ok.If both calipers are working ok then that means cable problems.
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by citronut »

i would ask the MOT station if they could run through the brake test before loging onto VOSA's computer as a retest,

because if it still fails to meet the requirements you will still have you one free re/test up your sleave,
that is unless mpore than ten working days not including bank hol's and weekends have elapsed,

how did you adjust/reset the callipers up this time,

regards malcolm
User avatar
dandare1980
Posts: 60
Joined: 15 Oct 2011, 09:58
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by dandare1980 »

Thanks for your replies.

We set the rear brakes up according to the Haynes manual, so in short once the pads and discs had been replaced (locating the lug on the rear of the inner pad with the piston slot), foot brake pressure was applied to bring the pads and discs into contact.

We then re-attached the handbrake cables to the caliper levers and began to wind the adjuster nut under the handbrake lever back in until a slight drag was being felt on the first "click" of the handbrake's ratchet.

The handbrake seems to be holding better, but of course no way of knowing the exact efficiency. The foot brake seems better too (could be the placebo effect though).

I did enquire when it failed as to whether they could run it on the rollers first before taking it through the test, to save me failing the free retest. However, the guy I spoke with didn't seem to think this would be possible as, in his words "once we've logged onto the machine......" I don't think they were feeling cooperative that day.

Got my tracking done at National yesterday in Northampton after doing the track rod ends (£15 on special offer, voucher on their website valid until Apr 2012). Asked them if they could test the brake efficiency, which they can no problem, it's £20 though.

One thing I noted, but couldn't really tell from the Haynes picture, was how far the lug on the rear of the inner pad was meant to be seated within the piston slot? On the old pads currently fitted (cheapest from Central Auto Supplies), the lug seems to be more on the outside of the piston slot than within it. Could this be causing an issue?

Also, what is the purpose of the anti-rattle clips? They seem to hang loose and not really do a lot apart from get in the way on refitting?

Got to take it through now as MOT due to expire. Will post back on results, fingers crossed!

Thanks again,

Dan.
1998 Citroen Xsara 1.9 D Estate (XUD9A indirect injection engine DJY with Bosch XUD 211 injection pump).
User avatar
dandare1980
Posts: 60
Joined: 15 Oct 2011, 09:58
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by dandare1980 »

Hooray! It's passed the MOT!

I didn't get a brake efficiency report, but the handbrake was obviously scoring high enough that it passed the 16% limit and was good enough that it was not picked up as an advisory.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me with suggestions and advice throughout this post, the information has been informative and has saved me money.

Dan :)
1998 Citroen Xsara 1.9 D Estate (XUD9A indirect injection engine DJY with Bosch XUD 211 injection pump).
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by jgra1 »

great :)
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Re: MOT Failure - Handbrake Efficiency 11%

Post by CitroJim »

Dan, that's excellent news :-D

Just the heater matrix now :wink:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Post Reply