xantia fuel lift pump problems

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carpysmith
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xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by carpysmith »

Hi everybody!
I have an intermittent fault with the fuel lift pump on my xantia 2.0 hdi. More often than not the pump does not work and on the odd occasion that it does work it does not sound "right" seems noisier and more sluggish than it used to.
I was thinking that the pump is kaput but thought i would check that i had 12 volts to the pump before attempting to change it. On testing with a voltmeter i cannot find a 12 volt feed to the pump (most i can get is about 4.8 volts but i dont know if i,m testing the right wire and am i getting strange readings because i,m testing one of the fuel gauge sender wires?)
There are 4 wires on the pump (one is an earth i think)
Can anybody here tell me which wire i should be testing, is the pump 12volt (i cant imagine it would be anything else!!),whereabouts is the pump relay and fuse, and where is the best place to get another pump if required?.
Local main stealer quoted me £250 plus (OUCH) for a new one!!!
Obviously i dont want to shell out for another pump then find out it,s a 10 quid relay or wiring fault!!!
Sorry for the long post and i hope it all makes sense!!!
Regards and thanks in advance!!
Steve (aka carpysmith)
1999 Xantia 2.0 hdi sx (estate) dead at the moment!! (temporary i hope!!!)
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by DickieG »

Bear in mind that the pump only runs for a few seconds if the engine doesn't start so the current will be there for that duration.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by carpysmith »

Hi DickieG!
Thanks for the quick reply, I had assumed that wiring should be live all the time that the ignition was switched on, and that the pump stopped when it had built up sufficient pressure!. Cant have another look until sunday (at work till then), so will try connecting meter then turning ignition switch on!!
Regards!
Steve.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by DickieG »

If the pump has been noisy that's a pretty good indication that its on its way out, you could try thumping the underside of the tank as that often kick starts it. A new pump is available for £130 delivered on eBay from Neat Autos.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by CitroJim »

DickieG wrote:Bear in mind that the pump only runs for a few seconds if the engine doesn't start so the current will be there for that duration.
That's interesting. Mine runs continuously from ignition on until I go for a start... Mine makes a very quiet, low hum. I know this because I'm still so used to IDI diesels that I sit there waiting for the glowplug light to go out before operating the starter. Of course I never see the glowplug light as it's an HDi so I sit and wait for the airbag lights instead :roll: :roll: :roll:

I've no circuits of the fuel pump in the HDi Steve but I would expect it's fed via the double relay in the ECU box and you should see 12v at the pump connector as soon as you switch on the ignition.

4.8V at the pump would suggest there's a bit of resistance somewhere, possibly the double injection relay or a corroded splice. I'd think it would have a fuse somewhere but again I'm not sure which one as again, I've not got that information. However, knowing the fuse, measure the volts there too and see if it's similarly low.

I'm wondering if the fuel pump feed runs through the troublesome loom under the rad and the source of the problem is there...

It's not a good idea to do this and then drive the car but you could prove the wiring by 'hotwiring' the pump directly via a fused supply direct from the battery.. If the pump then responds normally then that's one point proved.

Otherwise the voltage droop could just be down to the pump being faulty and drawing so much excess current that the wiring can't supply the demand. That's why it's important to fuse any hotwiring you might do for test purposes... If the fuse, say a 20A one, blows then you know the pump is duff.

Finally, when you measure 4.8V were you 100% sure you were looking at the pump supply and not the fuel level sender signal voltage?

Do you see full 12V if you measure with the fuel pump connector disconnected?
Jim

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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by carpysmith »

Hi again chaps!
Did think of running a 12volt feed straight to pump but wanted to be sure which terminal/wire to connect to!! have tested voltage with plug on and off with the same results. Wasn,t sure if i am testing fuel guage wire by mistake which is why i need to know the correct wire as i have no readings on any other wires!! haynes book of lies wiring diagrams are about as much use as a chocolate teapot!!!
regards.
Steve.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by CitroJim »

Steve, if it's like the petrols then the pump wires will be the thicker ones..

I'll have a gander at mine tomorrow afternoon and see for sure...
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by carpysmith »

Many thanks CitroJim, would be much appreciated, as i said in first post, i,m at work till sunday so any information gathered prior til then would be most useful!!
regards
Steve.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by Peter.N. »

CitroJim wrote:
DickieG wrote:Bear in mind that the pump only runs for a few seconds if the engine doesn't start so the current will be there for that duration.
That's interesting. Mine runs continuously from ignition on until I go for a start... Mine makes a very quiet, low hum. I know this because I'm still so used to IDI diesels that I sit there waiting for the glowplug light to go out before operating the starter. Of course I never see the glowplug light as it's an HDi so I sit and wait for the airbag lights instead :roll: :roll: :roll:

I
Jim, I think mine only runs briefly when I turn on the ignition. I don't have to wait for anything, just turn the key, it starts instantly like a petrol engine, even in that freezing weather last year. :-D

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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by evilclive »

Middle two wires are the pump. A little looking on ebay found a suitable photo in this listing

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dispatch-Syne ... 2a0f695e8b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(not necessarily recommending the item, but the photo shows the wires. 2 thin red ones on the outside are the sender).

You get 3-4 seconds running when you first turn the ignition on, then it stops till it's needed again.

Having just had to replace mine, I recommend getting a spare in or changing at the first sign of trouble. Fitting needs hammer + screwdriver to do the lock ring, possibly pliers or similar to rotate the pipe terminations so you can push the catch. It's fairly easy, but obviously impossible if you don't have a spare, and if the pump dies you're utterly stuck :-)

I got mine for 120 quid from ebay. Picture was wrong, but part number was right, and the part delivered was the right one.

Now, is the BoL correct when it recommends a new O-ring? I know the fuel filter needs a new one when you change it, but the pump?
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by DickieG »

evilclive wrote:Now, is the BoL correct when it recommends a new O-ring? I know the fuel filter needs a new one when you change it, but the pump?
I suppose that will depend upon whether the ring has deformed, if it seals then job done.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by evilclive »

DickieG wrote:
evilclive wrote:Now, is the BoL correct when it recommends a new O-ring? I know the fuel filter needs a new one when you change it, but the pump?
I suppose that will depend upon whether the ring has deformed, if it seals then job done.
It is rather lower pressure too, so stands a better chance of sealing.

(my experience with the fuel filter ring was a bit messier - it looked fine, but spewed diesel. That's how I know it needs a new one :-) ).
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by DickieG »

In reality the seal is only under pressure from the fuel laying behind it and fuel surging within the tank during corering/braking, the pump pressure is nowhere near the seal. The only way of knowing whether the seal is good is to brim fill the tank and cross your fingers, if it leaks syphon out the excess fuel or immediately go on a drive of 200 miles to lower the level and hope that no motorcycles are following you.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by Prilliant03 »

DickieG wrote: immediately go on a drive of 200 miles to lower the level and hope that no motorcycles are following you.
Telling me this about a week too late :-D

I'll be attacking my leaky tank this afternoon and praying for a simple fix. Off on a 1000 mile round trip in the Xantia tomorrow night.
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Re: Xantia fuel lift pump problems

Post by carpysmith »

Many thanks chaps!
Will test wires again sunday when not at work, but i,m pretty sure i,ve got no voltage on any of the two middle wires, so in the meantime if any body knows the location of fuse/relay it would be very useful mefinks!! at least i know which wires to check now!!!
haynes book of lies says it is engine compartment fuse box (fuse 9) that fuse is ok!! doesn,t mention relay location!!
Regards
Steve (aka carpysmith)
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