Rattly 1.9td Synergie

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bxzx16v
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Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by bxzx16v »

A workmate has a Synergie which makes an almighty clattering noise when ticking over , it sounds like someone shaking a can of marbles , when he revs it black smoke belches out of the exhaust , has anyone any ideas what's wrong or is it beyond help ? You can actually hear him coming before you see him it's that bad

Mark
2009 Landrover Freelander 2 TD4se (killed an Audi) , sadly now gone .
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spider
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by spider »

Assuming its not actually valve train (unlikely) the pump timing is likely to be out a tooth or the advance has failed (and stuck fully advanced)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by citroenxm »

Being a rock soild TD that should have all metal idle's etc so shouldn't fail, and in these engines the tension is set to max on the belt.. the only thing to cause a belt jump would be a shreaded Aux belt..

So I too would go with a Pump Advance problem, if you advance a normally working XUD pump right against the engine it sounds exactly like a Perkins TD engine... :-D

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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bxzx16v
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by bxzx16v »

Thanks for that , I will pass the info on in the morning

Mark
2009 Landrover Freelander 2 TD4se (killed an Audi) , sadly now gone .
2012 Landrover Freelander 2 SD4 AUTO Love it . Now gone .
2014 Ford Bmax 1.0 Ecoboost Zetec . Fantastic little machine .Gone now.
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by spider »

Thinking of advance again, as the post 96ish pumps are still mechanical but have electronic advance they should have a "K" light on the instrument panel. Have them check this actually comes on with the ignition and then goes out when the engine is running. There's a sensor fitted to one injector to control this, this is the most likely fail point (the needle sensor in the injector) although they do have a couple of other sensors too. Earlier pumps have completely mechanical advance (as a side note these are unrelated to any immobiliser parts) , I'll not fill this post with too much info as it might be irrelevant until we get more info. :)

My thoughts are still as above, either the belt is out / jumped (as citroenxm suggested) or the advance has failed. The good thing (!) about a failed advance is its highly likely to be one of the sensors and not an internal pump issue.

The smoke / noise does suggest a timing problem of some kind though.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by Foggyoutcome »

see if the sensor is still attached to the injector.
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by MPV »

I bet it's the aux belt tensioner. If this is not adjusted properly it will rattle like mad at idle. Have a look down the side of the engine when it's idling, can you see a wheel on the tensioner belt jiggling about continually? If so you need to adjust the belt tensioner. If this tensioner still ratlles when the engine is reved, get it looked at ASAP, as it could snap off and knacker the whole engine by getting dragged into the timing belt!
Synergie XUD9 - the "Duck-billed-clatterbus"
citroenxm
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by citroenxm »

I know exactly what you mean, however, this would not cause back smoke when revved, unless the car has never gone over 2k and and a good blow out.. This still sounds more like a timing issue..

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Foggyoutcome
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by Foggyoutcome »

I bet its the timing issue if it sounds like marbles with black smoke, i done the timing belt on a old pug and put the belt on a tooth out with the same symptoms.
another time i changed the glow plugs and forgot the attach the lead back onto the injector and that caused a similer issue.

I have never heard of a tooth jumping on a timing belt!
bxzx16v
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by bxzx16v »

Will pass all the info onto my workmate , thanks again for the help

Mark
2009 Landrover Freelander 2 TD4se (killed an Audi) , sadly now gone .
2012 Landrover Freelander 2 SD4 AUTO Love it . Now gone .
2014 Ford Bmax 1.0 Ecoboost Zetec . Fantastic little machine .Gone now.
2014 Ford Focus 2.0 Tdci Zetec S with the French heart.
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by Dippy »

Had this with mine on purchase .BIL (original owner) complained of fluctuating tickover .

There are numerous posts on FCF regarding the Fast Idle + EGR valve on this engine .

I disconnected both ( but left the wiring plugged into the solenoid/vac valves ) ,and had the tickover physically set to 800 rpm when warm by a diesel specialist who agreed with FCF.
This cured the smoking and improved fuel economy by 3 - 4 mpg. but it still sometimes clattered like a tractor when cold.

Again , thanks to this Forum, I left the battery disconnected for about 12 Hrs so the ECU would " forget " it's old settings ? I then " drove it like I stole it " for about an hour ranging from high revs low - load and vice - versa . Absolutely fine for about 9 months then the " clatter " returned ?
FCF yet again , the advance unit inside the pump ( Bosch with Electronics) could stick open ?, especially if run on crap / poorly filtered fuel .

Never having run on owt but pump diesel I bunged a full can of injector cleaner into the fuel filter then blasted it down the motorway , success - no more pump clatter .
This tends to last for appx. 9 months then it's another dose of inj. cleaner or a couple of tanks of V power
( which says something about supermarket diesel ?)

I am now of the opinion that, due to the tamperings ? the ECU fails to see wether it requires a s..t, shave or a haircut ? and once in a very long while throws up the K light light on the dash for about 3 secs looking for the now inoperative solenoid valves ? but I'm guessing .....
nothing else changes and the car is hunky - dory .

All other things being equal ( Battery , Starter, Glo Plugs ) the Car never fails to start at these settings , even in - 15 C , and the climate functions perfectly - 800 rpm being just enough to power all necc functions without overloading the engine, even in wintertime.

Hope this helps.
Dippy
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Re: Rattly 1.9td Synergie

Post by Dippy »

* Forgot to add. there is a ( green coloured) Temp sensor hidden behind the water heated Fuel Filter housing ( in addition to the two sensors on the front of it ) which also appears to control the inj. pump advance , if this is duff ? or the pins corroded ( more likely) the Pump will go to full advance ( death rattle) at any engine temp. Pulling the plug from this sensor has the same effect . Contact cleaner usually sorts it .

The " death rattle " is normal at startup / cold engine .
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