Citroen Xantia 2.0L HDI SX spheres

[stevestix8]

Hi all,

Have been sorting my Xantia over the last few weeks. New Cam belt, tensioner, water pump, crank shaft pulley and aux belt. Then on Sun we replaced the front pads.

The car is going well and all seems fine except it has been bouncing (on bad roads) on the front. I have looked through the history it has and the rear spheres were replaced recently, but the front spheres I don't think have ever been done.

Can anyone give me any advice about adjustments on the suspension or replacing the front spheres?

Steve

[Xaccers]

Have a look here:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 95&start=0

[rmunns]

I had precisely the same on my Xantia Hdi90.

I successfully replaced the three rear spheres a few weeks back, but this made the car bounce terribly at the front.

I changed all three front spheres, suspension is now perfect. I'm sure the accumulator sphere was the culprit, never having been changed as far as I could see from the service history.

BUT

I had dreadful trouble getting the old accumulator sphere off. I have always been able to get spheres off easily with my chain wrench, but this was a pig.

Eventually get it after I mugged up on a few new swear words. Just keep trying, remembering to soak with PlusGas. It was this that finally made the sphere let go, after it had been left to penetrate for an hour. And protect the radiator from accidents.

Another brilliant tip (read this tip on this site):

surround the front corner spheres with plastic bags so as to catch any fluid which leaks out as the spheres are undone.

[stevestix8]

Hi,

Thanks for responses. Any advice at this stage is useful to me. I knew there was 3 spheres on the back but only just learnt there are 3 on the front also.

I have read through the Haynes for my Xantia (though not exactly the same as my car) this has given me some information on changing spheres etc.

Can you tell me anything else about this 3rd front sphere? The acumilator? Have seen the Xac special removal tool and will prob make 1 of those. When I looked for new spheres (europarts will do front pair for about £45), they seem to come as a pair. Is the Acumilator sphere the same as others? Or is this a different part? Also where is this 3rd front sphere positioned?

Many thanks

Steve

[Xaccers]

The accumulator is normally on the front of the engine down at the bottom, look between the engine and the radiator.
I'd get the spheres from GSF rather than ECP but that's personal preference, they should be about £25 each.
The accumulator looks the same but has no damping discs in it. It's internal pressure/volume is different too.

[stevestix8]

Hi

Yep found it. Positioned between radiator and engine (not sure how i missed it). It does look the same as others but positioned horizontally instead of vertically. Will have to order that as seperate part. If I just changed the accumilator sphere will that fix the bouncing? Or do I need to change all 3 on front?

Thanks for all advice and nice new look to the forum.

Steve

[Xaccers]

As you have an SX, you have 6 spheres in total, the 4 corner ones control the ride, the other two are pressure storage spheres to iron out any pressure spikes and provide residual pressure for the brakes should the engine stop.
To see if you need to change the accumulator sphere, run the engine on normal height and listen at the front for the regulator clicking/ticking. There should be at least 30 seconds between ticks, any less and you definitely need to replace the accumulator.

So you will need to replace the corner spheres to improve the ride quality. This is why the accumulator spheres are often overlooked as they play no part in how the car rides.
To change the spheres, start the car up, set the height to low and let it settle down for a few minutes, then on the regulator (cylindrical thing the accumulator is screwed into) find the 12mm bolt and unscrew it 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, enough to make it whistle which is the LHM rushing back to the tank.
Stop the engine, nip up the 12mm bolt.
The hydraulics have now been depressurised and it is safe to remove the spheres.
You only need to use the tool to get the sphere going, then you should be able to spin them off by hand.
If the membrane in the sphere has ruptured then the sphere will be full of LHM which will dribble out if you hold it with the hole downwards.
If the membrane is fine but the pressure behind it is not enough to empty the sphere of LHM while it's screwed in place, expect to get a douche vert where the LHM sprays out (apparently it's a good hair conditioner).
So be prepared for some mess.
If you're lucky the membranes will be intact and have enough pressure to empty the LHM back into the pipes when you depressurised the system.
New spheres come with new o-rings, coat the o-ring in fresh LHM and fit it into the recess in the socket on the car (remembering to remove the old o-ring if it's in place).
Then gently screw the new spheres in place only hand tight.

[stevestix8]

OK Xac,

Got that. Good response. I grew up in Milk & Beans about 26 yrs ago in New Bradwell.

1 question, If the accumilator sphere is ticking less than every 30 secs and I do need to replace, then do I also need to replace the other 2? If I am doing the accumilator should I do all 3 ?

Otherwise I think thats enough research I should be able to do them now. Is just a question of ordering all 3 or should I just order and change the accumilator sphere first.

Steve

[Xaccers]

I used to live in Thompson Street

Get the car on normal height, check you can get just 3 fingers between the top of the front tyres and the wheel arch, and 1 finger for the rears to confirm you're at roughly the right height front and back as being set too high or low will give a harsh ride.
If the front is firm when driving and very bouncy then you'll need to change the front corner spheres.
Also check the colour of the lhm that comes out when you change them, if it's dark/red then it would be a good idea to buy some hydrorincage (hydroflush) from gsf and replace your lhm with it for 1000miles then replace with new lhm, and make sure the tank filters are clean (petrol and a soft cheap toothbrush helps)

[stevestix8]

Nice,

Small world, we used to live at 79 Thompson Street, right next to canal. Before they knocked them down to build new housing estate. We moved to the country mid-eighties. Some good memories of that area.

Good advice with car. Am thinking about replacing all 3 front spheres, as not to expensive on part price, and then fit myself. Will make 1 of your tension spanners, or my dad says he might have a similar tool.

Will order parts over wknd.

Thanks again,

Steve

[CitroJim]

Small world, we used to live at 79 Thompson Street, right next to canal.

Gosh, never knew there used to be another part of Thompson Street! What they replaced it with is not that magical...

Thompson Street could tell some tales of some epic spannering Xac and I have performed there, including but by means limited to a 1.9TD cylinder head swap

I'm fairly local, living in Newport Pagnell..

[stevestix8]

Hi all,

I remember Newport Pagnell well, we used to walk up from New Bradwell to the Agora when I was about 8. Are all the experts from Milk & beans?

Will be performing myself soon. We have seen the 2 (left/right) spheres at europarts for £42 and they are doing a 25% discount if you use promo code crazy 25. So should be able to get these 2 spheres for about £30. Will be changing them first and then see how this effects the ride. These spheres are more likely to fix the 'bouncing' issue than the accumilator sphere. Have listened to the clicking noise from accumilator sphere and it seems to be less than every 30 secs is more like every 10 secs. So if the issue isn't solved by replacing left / right spheres then we know the last thing it can be is the accumilator and therefore willl be changing that aswell.

Does anyone know about makes of these spheres? There seems to be different quality spheres resulting in varying prices. They say Lizarte are one of the best, as long as they comply with regs then does make matter?

Otherwise thanks for responses.

[CitroJim]

I've no idea what EuroCarParts spheres are like Steve but they should be OK. I always either get new Amtex spheres from GSF or regassed ones from Pleiades. I've never had a problem with GSF ones at all. No idea on the Lazarus ones either...

Just make absolutely sure, wherever you go to get them, you get the right ones. All spheres may be green balls but corners (suspension) and accumulators are very different. Corners have inbuilt damping elements that act as shock absorbers whilst accumulators don't. Furtehr there are different specifications for corners depending on model, front or rear and suspension type (hydractive or non-hydractive). They are NOT freely interchangeable and it's not unknown for any factor to supply the wrong ones for the wrong job.

The only universal sphere is the accumulator and they are the same for just about any hydraulic Citroen ever made...

The corner (suspension) spheres will resolve the bounciness. The fact that the regulator tick is very short suggests the accumulator is indeed flat or ruptured and needs to be replaced.

[Xaccers]

If they're amtex then they're good, same as what GSF supply. You want the ones for non-hydractive.
With a tick rate of only 10 seconds you need to replace your accumulator.


Also look at the hydraulic pump, one of the metal pipes from it will be coming out of a 19mm (or is it 17mm) nut, with the engine running check it isn't leaking around the larger nut as the o-ring eventually goes, replacing it is easy, new o-rings are available from the dealer for about 79p each I think. Further around the pump is a 19mm (or 17mm my memory is terrible) blanking plate, that also takes the same size o-ring and can leak.
Under both 19mm hexes is a spring, not likely to jump out but could fall out so be careful if you need to replace the o-rings.

[stevestix8]

Hi,

Thanks for all responses. Is good to know I can get (and give) advice like this because I have found Citroen themselves to be expensive and not very helpful.

We have ordered the GSF front left/right spheres for my car. Citroens price was £60 plus each plus postage. We went to the GSF website and ordered the same part number item (the good quality spheres) for £28 each with free postage. It turned out the Europarts spheres were £42 each even though advert shows a pair.

So we are now waiting on the parts to turn up. We have the thread and box section needed to make the tool and are ready to 'perform' when the parts arrive prob Weds.

Thanks again, will post when have driven car with new spheres, hopefully bounce free.

Steve