Should Technically be a pug topic...

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 09 Oct 2011, 15:43

Grandpa blew his clutch the other day, gearbox was fine before this, now after having new clutch kit put in, its extremely stubborn to get into 1st, any other gear (incl Reverse) is no problem.

Apparently he tried forcing it into 1st seconds before loosing drive and coming to a halt...

Is the issue likely to be a bent selector, and if so, is it a 'box out job to fix??? (hope not)

The car is a 99 406 2.0l HDi

spider · Post by **spider** » 09 Oct 2011, 16:07

I think on the 90's its rod selection rather than the cable. If you're really lucky ( ! ) you might find just one of the rods has bent on top / outside the transmission although that's unlikely, unless one popped off.

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 09 Oct 2011, 16:11

spider wrote:I think on the 90's its rod selection rather than the cable. If you're really lucky ( ! ) you might find just one of the rods has bent on top / outside the transmission although that's unlikely, unless one popped off.

Yeah its rods and not cables... So internal you think? Box out job?

spider · Post by **spider** » 09 Oct 2011, 19:37

I don't know how much disassembly you'd have to do, its the BE3 box as far as I recall.

I'd start by looking at what's going on externally via the rods / linkages then you'd know if you need to go further, I'm hoping its just an external issue of some kind.

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Oct 2011, 19:48

Um, if it's a 90 then it'll be a BE3 but a 110 will have an ML5.. Simpkle way to tell the BE3 will have a cable clutch and the ML5 a hydraulic one...

If a BE3 and he rammed it into first clutchless then chances are he's destroyed the synchro. This can be proved by seeing if 1st will engage Ok when the engine is stopped...

Same maybe happened to a ML5 but as Andy says, well worth checking for a bent rod before getting too many spanners out...

BE3 'boxes have synhros that are easy to damage under abuse; they last for ever in normal use but do just one clutchless job on them and they're toast...

Many BE3 third gear synchros have gone west on Xantias when the clutch clip breaks and (usually) third is clutchlessly selected to get out of immediate trouble...

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 10 Oct 2011, 03:48

Need to have a decent look, Im thinking it's the 110 as its intercooled? Could be wrong on that one though...

Will be heading his ways in a few days so will have far more definitive answers for you kind folk

EDIT: Just been told its as difficult to engage first when engine off, however, from rev. to 1st always seems to work

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 Oct 2011, 06:44

If thats an intercooled one Regan, then it'll more than likely have an ML5 with hydraulic clutch and cable gear selectors.

My experience of many ML5s is that first and reverse can be a bit 'baulky', especially when cold..

It's quite normal, I find that it helps reverse engagement before trying to engage third or first..

Is it OK once he is under way, say when engaging first on slowly rolling up to a junction?

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 10 Oct 2011, 09:05

CitroJim wrote:If thats an intercooled one Regan, then it'll more than likely have an ML5 with hydraulic clutch and cable gear selectors.

My experience of many ML5s is that first and reverse can be a bit 'baulky', especially when cold..

It's quite normal, I find that it helps reverse engagement before trying to engage third or first..

Is it OK once he is under way, say when engaging first on slowly rolling up to a junction?

From what I've been told, 1st is near impossible in all operating conditions, I know from when I drove it before the clutch was done, she shifted very smoothly with no probs in any gear...

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 Oct 2011, 09:11

Sounds very much like the clutch going has damaged the first gear baulk ring unfortunately Regan

It's a big job to sort out and new internals for PSA gearboxes tend to be very expensive...

Can he live with it for a while?

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 10 Oct 2011, 09:58

CitroJim wrote:Sounds very much like the clutch going has damaged the first gear baulk ring unfortunately Regan

It's a big job to sort out and new internals for PSA gearboxes tend to be very expensive...

Can he live with it for a while?

Jim, thats kinda what I was expecting... Can get my hands on a 2nd hand box, that might be the cheapest way to go I think... Now for the fun(!) job of dropping the 'box

addo · Post by **addo** » 10 Oct 2011, 11:23

Has it got the right oil in it? Too thick an oil may be contributing.

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 10 Oct 2011, 11:26

addo wrote:Has it got the right oil in it? Too thick an oil may be contributing.

Adam, to be honest, I never even thought of that!!! Think that would be a good place to start before I drop the box

addo · Post by **addo** » 10 Oct 2011, 11:29

It's NZ. Never assume it hasn't been gunned full of 3pt linkage grease and strapped back in with No.8 fencing wire...

mongoose100 · Post by **mongoose100** » 10 Oct 2011, 11:54

addo wrote:It's NZ. Never assume it hasn't been gunned full of 3pt linkage grease and strapped back in with No.8 fencing wire...

Could explain a few things then!!!
You still haven't taught us the 'underarm bowl' yet tho...

Oh and the Pavlova... Well, lets not bore our fellow peers in the Northern Hemisphere with *that* debate!!!

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 Oct 2011, 12:21

mongoose100 wrote:
addo wrote:Has it got the right oil in it? Too thick an oil may be contributing.
Adam, to be honest, I never even thought of that!!! Think that would be a good place to start before I drop the box

Yep, as addo says. It's not unknown for well-meaning garages to put the wrong stuff in and PSA boxes are incredibly fussy. Only 75W/80 works in them.

I've known them full of EP90 and it makes gear changes a nightmare on a cold morning... I've also known them filled with ATF.. That's not a good recepie either...