Your thoughts on C5 1.6 HDI

[Xantic]

As the title suggests, Anyone have one or have any thoughts on if this model is any good before i buy one.

It will only be the Design model i think but any info will be appreciated.

Thanks
Russ..

[den169]

Not had one myself but know a couple who have and both say there underpowered,Why citroen went for the 1600hdi in such a big car is beyond me,Look on ebay tons of 1600 ones.

[citroenxm]

For a more in depth reply the 1600 hdi is still 110bhp the same as the original 2.0 hdi 8v...

AVOID mark one 2.2s russ.. They do have lots of niggles though some but not all have prooved good. They arent particularly economical compared to any hdi xantia..

Go for face lift as you are sugesting thats the modified headlights and boot lights.. So far these second generation hdi units are prooving very very good indeed.. Send citroenmad a pm he is a big c5 man and knows his stuff.. Ive been put off the first gen c5 with a customers car but beleve the later facelifts are a much improoved car..

The design spec you mention also doesnt have the FAP filter in the exhaust I THINK but correct treatment and top up of the Eolys fluid and good blasts on a a470 should keep that all clear.. Non of this farting around stop start in towns. Lol..

Paul

[Citroenmad]

Send citroenmad a pm he is a big c5 man and knows his stuff..

Paul

No need, im here ....

I have heard very mixed reviews about the 1.6HDi, a good few people I know have said you would never know its a 1.6 as its a good performer. Others have said its a bit slow but really, what do you expect for a car with 110bhp and weighs 1400kg!?

As paul said, the 1.6HDi gives the same power as the 2.0 8v HDi 110 and that is a good performing car with around 0-60 in 12 seconds. It might be a 1.6 but engine size doesnt matter, its the power and torque they give. I think the 1.6 is very slightly down on torque comapred to the 2.0 8v, but not by a lot.

This 1.6HDI 110 engine is still used in the current C5, which is a very heavy car (much more so than the original C5s) and it is probably best avoided in that. I think 0-60 is about 14seconds in that car. Indeed the 2.0HDi 138 in that new C5 is about the same or slower as the 1.6HDI 110 in a C5II/facelift.

The 1.6HDi should have frequent oil changes, Citroen put them on 20K mile services and this has proven to be a bad idea. So get one which has had yearly or 10K mile services. They also should have low sulphur oil but thats not expensive or too vital. There is a reminder which was sent out stating that this engine should never have its oil sucked out, it should always be drained out the old fashioned way. This is due to the long service intervals (which have not been changed, still 20K - mad!), the oil feed pipes to the turbo are quite small, they can get blocked by old, dirty oil and so the turbo overheats and breaks. This is a talked about problem with 1.6HDis but more frequent servicing should see you past having this problem.

Having said that someone I know has a C4 1.6HDi 110, who despite me telling him it should be serviced every 10K or every year with the correct oil he doesn't get it done. Its done (by me) about every 2 years or 30K and its surviving, somehow.

As paul rightly said, the 'Design' trim level does not have a FAP filter. Who knows why this might be, im not sure. LX and VTR spec levels with the 1.6HDi 110 do have a FAP filter, as does every other C5 diesel apart from the earlier 2.0 8vs, as found in the C5I.

FAPs are not all that bad though, especially not on the 1.6 and 2.0 16vs.

[Xantic]

Thank you very much for your replies everyone.

Up to now i have not seen the car in question as did not get around to viewing this weekend but there is a chance for next weekend so will report back then.

As for speed, my days of speed are over and after driving a truck all week which although pops along nicely i am used to a slow pick up and even drive the Xantia the same..

Beggars can't be choosers, I would have liked an all singing all dancing C5 with leather etc but trying to find one at the right price and distance and everything else is like trying to climb Everest on a pogo stick.

I am not too fussy on the back end of the new C5's but there again i cant see it from the drivers seat so if and/or when i buy it i shall report back with some photos and will be able to give my opinion on it.

Thanks for your help.

Russ..

[citroenxm]

Russ..

I took pics of the Black Xantia for you?? Youve not had a look yet, they are in your PM inbox?? Are you interested or not??

Paul

[Xantic]

Sorry Paul

I have been so busy with so many things here mate. Iv'e had some help on the Xantia and she is going for MOT in the morning, I will have a look now Paul but at the moment lets see what happens to my Xantia and then if i take the plunge on the new C5.

Sorry if you think i was hanging you on Paul..My head is spinning with everything here.

Russ..

[Peter.N.]

Hi Chris

I have a 406 with the 2.0 110 bhp Hdi and am very impressed with it, if I were thinking about a C5 what is the latest model that uses it, what problems do the early cars have and is there any difference in the seats between the various versions?

Thanks

Peter

[Citroenmad]

Hi Chris

I have a 406 with the 2.0 110 bhp Hdi and am very impressed with it, if I were thinking about a C5 what is the latest model that uses it, what problems do the early cars have and is there any difference in the seats between the various versions?

Thanks

Peter

Hi Peter,

Yes, the 2.0HDi 110 8v is a cracking unit and very very well proven now. Im glad your getting along well with a HDi.

The latest model you will find will be a 04 or 54 plate, from late 54 plate is C5II (facelift) territory and the 2.0 8v is not found in them.

You have a couple of trim levels to choose from at that age. The LX has a few bits and bobs, manual air con, front electric windows etc, all pretty basic really. The trip computer is a more basic display and the height display settings are shown on the speedo unit and not the centre display. Like the 406 its available with 90 and 110 bhp, but only in this base LX spec, higher spec cars are always 110bhps.

If your after a later version then the next spec is a VTR, it has 16" alloys with fairly wide tyres. You can get budget tyres for around £70 per tyre fitted but premium brands can run up to £150 per tyre. So that is the only real downside to a later version in terms of running costs. The VTR has dual zone climate control, automatic wipers and lights and an alarm among other things. It has the larger centre display. In hatchback form it also has a rear wiper, unlike other trims. The VTR has a blue interior, with blue seatbelts and blue dash inserts, its nice actually and not at all in your face if it sounds like that, I miss that interior!

If you find a slightly older car then it might be the popular SX spec, which is pretty much similar to the VTR but without the alarm, blue interior and larger wheels. It has 15" wheels which are cheap to shod. I just got a pair of Michelins on our SX for £130.

If you happen to stumble upon a Exclusive, which will be difficult as there are not many 2.0HDi 110 excclusives, most are 2.2s, then you will have some more features. I think a CD changer, Xenon lights and headlight washers and a few other bits. Unless you find one with leather you do get a pretty nasty fabric interior, looks like an old sofa. The SX and VTR and much nicer inside in my opinion.

Seats are all very similar in comfort terms, all but the LX spec has arm rests on both front seats, which are a nice feature. Ive spent hours and hours in C5s and find the seats very comfortable. They are very different from XM seats but very comfortable I find. The driving position is among the best I have found too and it feels more spacious than many cars.

So problems ...

Actually not an awful lot of things to look out for.
I think your 406 might be a multi-plexed car? So you might already know what to look for there, make sure you test every function of the stalks. However its not a hugely common failing and easy to replace should it need to be.

Drop links do rattle away, an easy and cheap repair but maybe a haggling tool.

Spheres, Citroen recommended 5 year or 125K replacements. However many C5s pass this in years and often mileage with little effects to the ride quality. However some do need spheres earlier, I looked at a 03 car with 50K on and the rear spheres were very low on gas. However our previous estate was on its originals on 105K miles and a 52 plate. 110s are not hydractive + models, so they only have 4 spheres.
They do adjust for height though, when at motorway speed the car lowers slightly (fractionally more at the front) to aid aerodynamics and stability. They also raise slightly when on rough ground and under a certain speed. You can, of course, adjust the suspension height manually via the buttons near the handbrake. On the estate you also get a button in the boot to raise and lower the rear of the car, ideal for getting dogs into the boot, loading heavy items, hitching up to a trailer etc.
On the whole C5s suspension very rarely gives any problems and its a very well sorted system.

Rear radius arm bearings can go at mileages around 100K - not always, many go for a lot longer, I guess it depends on use. They are easy and simple to replace, not unlike the XMs or Xantias in fact.

The handbrake levers on the front brake calipers can get a bit sticky and cause the brakes to bind on. Something to check on any ones your looking at and so check for warped discs. Its an easy thing to put right and id advise a lubrication of the levers on a service.

If you find a car with dual zone climate (all except the LX) then check that both sides of the heating control work as intended. The motor which operates the heater flaps can wear and give heat to the passenger side when you really want cool. Again an easy and not too expensive fix.

You know what to look for on the 2.0HDi 110 and so I won't mention that.

There might be things ive missed but I think thats about it. On the whole they are good cars and most problems can be sorted easily.

Im sure you would enjoy a C5, they are not quite as soft riding as an XM but they are good and better than a 406 (I looked at those when looking at C5s). The C5s have many benefits and I rate them highly ...

We have had 3 2.0HDi 110bhp C5s now, one being an estate version. All were and are very reliable cars and cost little to keep but a joy to own. I had a few niggles with my VTR version but I think that was due to it being a slightly neglected car and me being a perfectionist. Our current 2.0 110 has been here for almost 3 years now, its done 135K miles and its an excellent car. It does at least 350 miles a week now and goes like a train, it will be here for a long while yet, its just such a good car.

I hope your C5 search goes well if you decide on one, I doubt you will be dissapointed if you find the right car.

[Xantic]

The knowledge on this forum is second to none, Although i might not make many posts i read a lot and learn from op posts,

The Xantia had it's MOT this morning and all was wrong was a split gaitor, Back on the road now for little cost happy days.

As for the C5 1.6 hdi i am still thinking about this car but from a call with the finance company i do think it will be stretching my finances a bit too much at the moment, i still have a few days to think things over, perhaps i would be better biding my time and getting the right car at the right price in the future.
Thanks for the input on recent questions' I will try not to think if any more for a while..lol

Russ

[Peter.N.]

Hi Chris

Thanks for that very comprehensive report. If I went for one it would be with the 2.0, 8 valve engine and an estate, something that would as near as possible equate to the XM. I like the 406 to drive and the internal space is not bad but what I really miss is the XM ride.

I am not really bothered about toys, the simpler the better as far as I am concerned, less to go wrong. Comfort, ride, space and economy are my main criteria and there do seem to be some very cheap early ones about now. I would rather have the 15" wheels, I don't like low profile tyres.

I am still running a couple of XM estates, my son drives the red one and the white one is our spare car which I still use for large loads although I tend to use the 406 more on account of its economy. The XM's are also getting a bit tatty round the edges in fact I'm not sure the red one will get through the MOT next year.

Having driven around 400,000 miles in XM's over the last 15 years they are like a comfortable pair of shoes and I don't feel quite at home in anything else so I will keep them going as long as I practically can but sooner or later I will need a change.

Thanks again

Peter

[Citroenmad]

No problem Peter

I thought you wouldn't be too interested in spec and wanted the smaller wheels, which is why I listed them.

I should really put together a C5s buyers guide perhaps.

Earlier C5s do tend to give the best ride (when fitted with good spheres obviously) as the later ones are a tighter drive and ever so slightler firmer as a result.

They should offer what you want from a car very well, as you know we have an XM estate in your desired XM spec and I find the C5s compare well in many ways. The XM has its advantages, ride quality is superior, but the C5s have their merrits and ride rather well. It might take you a while to get settled into one, after having XMs for so long, but once you do im sure you will enjoy them.

Since you like a soft ride ... I have had one C5 (2002 2.0HDi 8v) with comfort spheres and that really was a soft and wafting ride. Quite impressive really. A little too soft for me though and so I put the standard spheres back on. Well that is not quite true as the rears are still on, however I peened over the hole slightly and that has given me the ride quality I wanted on it. I did buy new Citroen rear spheres for it but im not allowed to fit them! Its ride its liked too much. Our 2002 C5 rides really nicely, you would like it. So if you are wanting a better ride from a C5 it would be an option for you.

I also hear some people have managed to regass C5 spheres by drilling in a hole. If you could get ones with more gas then that would also increase the ride quality but keep damping the same.