C5 2.0HDi FAP or not?

SaabC5 · Post by **SaabC5** » 04 Oct 2011, 12:42

As the title says does the MY03 C5 2.0HDi have a particulate filter the same as my 02 2.2HDi? I've read several conflicting websites and am totally lost now as to whats the correct answer.

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » 04 Oct 2011, 13:33

I don't know for sure but an ex Citroen mechanic told me to look inside the filler cap, if there are magnets in there it has, if not it hasn't.

My 2002 hasn't but it has slots in the filler cap that could accommodate magnets.

Post by **Paul-R** » 04 Oct 2011, 13:54

If it's a UK spec Ph I C5 then it doesn't have the FAP.

andy5 · Post by **andy5** » 04 Oct 2011, 14:20

Gibbo2286 wrote:I don't know for sure but an ex Citroën mechanic told me to look inside the filler cap, if there are magnets in there it has, if not it hasn't.

My 2002 hasn't but it has slots in the filler cap that could accommodate magnets.

I wonder if the magnets would be used with reed switches to detect whether the flap is open or the cap missing, rather than anything to do with actual treatment

I could be wrong though

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 09 Oct 2011, 20:33

No, a 2.0HDi 90 or 110 bhp 8v engine will not have have a FAP filter - UK spec anyway.

It is possible that all C5s have the magnets, as they tell the car that the cap is in place. Not sure on that.

As far as I understand it, once the cap is placed back on the tank after refueling, the car works out how much fuel has been added and then adds in the elyos fluid into the fuel tank tot he right quantity.

Many rumors go arond about this method, some people think as soon as you shut the filler cap the car injects elyos into the tank, regardless of fuel. So if you put in £5 a day of fuel then your car will soon get through its elyos supply. If you fill up every week it will last a lot longer. I don't believe this to be true.

The car is much to clever to allow that to happen, it knows how much fuel it has, how fuel elyos it has consumed etc. I dont have any hard and fast evidence to prove this but it seems the most feasible.

The 2.2 136 16v PSA engine was one of the first, if not the first, mass production engine in a normal car to have a FAP filter. It does seem to carry more or a bad reputation than anything for problems due to the FAP filter. However, its a reliable engine and the FAP filter is not always a headache. Regular runs to allow the FAP to regenerate and topping up with elyos when required will reduce the chances of a problem. I believe the later units have been refined more and they do tend to give far far fewer problems.

Don't be scared off cars with a FAP.

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » 09 Oct 2011, 21:29

My C5 2.0L HDI doesn't have the magnets or the elyos tank.

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 10 Oct 2011, 06:19

On the Mk1 at least its only the models with FAP that have magnets on the fuel filler cap.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:28

Citroenmad wrote:Don't be scared off cars with a FAP.

I'm not so sure about that Chris, I've had quite a number of C5 and Pug 406 owners visit me to use my Lexia in an effort to sort out FAP issues, admittedly they were all 2.2 HDi's.

From personal experience which admittedly isn't exactly scientific, I'd go out of my way to avoid buying a 2.2 HDi engined anything unless it was built after 2005 as the early generations of software weren't developed sufficiently well enough to be tolerant with the faults being generated and once the faults appear getting rid of them is very difficult and a complete lottery.

Buy a 2.2 HDi at your peril, I made that mistake once, I'd never do it again.

Norlander · Post by **Norlander** » 10 Oct 2011, 16:54

Buy a 2.2 HDi at your peril, I made that mistake once, I'd never do it again.

Do problems persist (C5 mk.1) after FAP removal and control unit remapping?

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 10 Oct 2011, 20:09

DickieG wrote:
Citroenmad wrote:Don't be scared off cars with a FAP.
I'm not so sure about that Chris, I've had quite a number of C5 and Pug 406 owners visit me to use my Lexia in an effort to sort out FAP issues, admittedly they were all 2.2 HDi's.

From personal experience which admittedly isn't exactly scientific, I'd go out of my way to avoid buying a 2.2 HDi engined anything unless it was built after 2005 as the early generations of software weren't developed sufficiently well enough to be tolerant with the faults being generated and once the faults appear getting rid of them is very difficult and a complete lottery.

Buy a 2.2 HDi at your peril, I made that mistake once, I'd never do it again.

Ive never had a 2.2HDi and neither would I have one, I like the more simplistic and well proven 2.0HDi 8vs for the C5I and the 138 2.0 16v HDi for the C5II. Its the most talked about PSA HDi in terms of reliability, though the unit itself doesnt seem bad at all. Its also known on here that not all anti pollution warnings are due to the FAP filter.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:11

Norlander wrote:
Buy a 2.2 HDi at your peril, I made that mistake once, I'd never do it again.
Do problems persist (C5 mk.1) after FAP removal and control unit remapping?

I can't answer that as I don't own one.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:15

Citroenmad wrote:Ive never had a 2.2HDi and neither would I have one, I like the more simplistic and well proven 2.0HDi 8vs for the C5I and the 138 2.0 16v HDi for the C5II. Its the most talked about PSA HDi in terms of reliability, though the unit itself doesnt seem bad at all. Its also known on here that not all anti pollution warnings are due to the FAP filter.

That's pretty much what I was saying really, now that MK2 C5's are getting older and into FAP filter replacement territory it'll be interesting to see what the long term issues are with the later system and software controlling it.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:25

DickieG wrote:
Citroenmad wrote:Ive never had a 2.2HDi and neither would I have one, I like the more simplistic and well proven 2.0HDi 8vs for the C5I and the 138 2.0 16v HDi for the C5II. Its the most talked about PSA HDi in terms of reliability, though the unit itself doesnt seem bad at all. Its also known on here that not all anti pollution warnings are due to the FAP filter.
That's pretty much what I was saying really, now that MK2 C5's are getting older and into FAP filter replacement territory it'll be interesting to see what the long term issues are with the later system and software controlling it.

There are a good few 1.6 and 2.0 16vs now with high mileages and still reports of problems are few and far between.

I went to buy a early 2.0 138 VTR a few years back, it was a demo car and had loads of options on it. It had done 78K miles and at first seemed fine. I then decided to buy it but wanted a longer test drive, which revealed the car wouldn't rev above 2500rpm. I didn't buy it but I saw the car at various garages after. It turned up (after being sold) at a local garage who couldn't get to the bottom of the faults. It then went and spent a bit of time at a Citroen dealer, from there it went to a diesel specialist which I know. They topped up the elyos fulid, set the thing to regenerate and it has been fine since. Almost wish I bought it as it was a very attractive price and spec.

The diesel specialist I know doesn't report of any bad experiences with the later 16v PSA HDis. Im pretty confident that they are good and I look forward to mine seeing higher miles. Our 2.0 16v HDi estate has done 74K miles and has been totally trouble free. If it eventually needs a elyos fluid top up then that will be fine, a service item. Its always got the recommended low sulphur oil which helps keep the particulate filter cleaner too. My 2.0 16v also uses the recommended oil.

Only time will tell but as I say, they seem to be getting to be well proven engines now and little to report. These 1.6 and 2.0 16vs are also used in many Volvos (C30, S40, V50, S60, S80 and V70), plus a whole load of Fords and so on. So it wouldn't have taken too long for them to get a reputation as often those cars are high mileage fleet cars.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:43

Chris, the mileages you mention are the point where these FAP filter start to give problems, I'd like to hear the experiences of owners running them beyond 80k miles.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:53

DickieG wrote:Chris, the mileages you mention are the point where these FAP filter start to give problems, I'd like to hear the experiences of owners running them beyond 80k miles.

Ours will get there before too long

My uncle has a 2.0 16v HDi 138 Exclusive on a 56 plate, its done almost 90K miles and has had no FAP problems as yet.

As I say, there are few reports on the net and known to specialists about that engine and FAP issues. It does seem a more refined and reliable unit than the earlier 2.2s. Obviously it will be a item which needs servicing at some point, however it a top up of elyos fluid is all which is needed than thats fine and expected.

Its getting a very common thing on cars now, some will be better than others but we will have to get used to dealing with them

I have not had any dealings with a FAP filter yet, so my knowledge is purely based on what I have heard from specialists and read when researching on the net. I did initially side-step the 2.2s for the FAP reason and the 2.0HDis are so good anyway.

I always stand by the following. If its a C5I then it should be a 2.0HDi 110 8v (you can always remap it if you want more go), if its a C5II then the 2.0HDi 138 16v. However the 1.6 is popular and a decent unit, while the later 2.2 173 seens reasonable, but they are limited in numbers and so will have less reports of problems anyway.