saxo breaks not very good

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 03 Sep 2011, 10:47

I'd still have the rear drums off just to check that a slave cylinder isn't leaking, if you don't want to do that have a look on the backplate for signs of leakage, also jack up the rear and apply the handbrake one click at a time then try turning each wheel by hand to see whether the brake on each wheel is biting evenly. Failing all else bleed/flush the brake fluid. if that still doesn't sort it I think you'll be looking at a new master cylinder.

addo · Post by **addo** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:23

Bleed, bleed and bleed again - maybe even try a reverse bleed.

If it's a non-ABS car there may be a compensator valve that restricts flow to the rears unless fully loaded.

For bleeding purposes only, wire this valve 100% open - inspection will reveal which way this is (work out which way the lever gets pulled as the back is weighed down). Don't forget to remove the wire before driving normally! I have done some impressive unwanted skids after forgetting this.

Also if the Saxo has a beam type rear axle there may be brake flexes in a "U" shape that can fail internally; ten years is a good life.

Post by **myglaren** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:24

C.J. wrote:I have also just purchased a saxo 1.4 furio to clean up and move on, and can also confirm that the brakes are generally crap.
Recently passed its mot so I guess it's just something to learn to live with.

My AX GT brakes are also dreadful, but you do get used to them by compensating with a heavier right hoof.

One of my workmates had a Saxo and his constant gripe was the rubbish brakes, even the MOT tester said they were the worst in the world and his complied with the test figures and were actually slightly better than usual.

He dumped it and bought a Picasso instead as he never felt safe with his wife and kids in it, once he started a family.

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:37

now i'm really pissed of!! I have just sheared off both the bleed nipples on the front, anyone know what I can do or is it new callipers now??? how much are they and where can i get them? ebay don't seem to have any which i find a bit weird

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 03 Sep 2011, 12:05

My daughter has a 1.1 Saxo. It's W reg and the brakes aren't good. But, they're a lot better since I replaced a leaking rear cylinder on the back right drum.

I also serviced the back brakes and changed the fluid.

The servo is on the left and the pedal on the right of the front end. There's linkages which run across the front of the fire wall which link the pedal to the servo. At the pedal end you can adjust out any slack in this linkage. This will make the servo act quicker. But, don't adjust it too much otherwise the brakes will bind like they did when I first tried it. I adjusted it too much and the servo was just acting. My daughter couldn't get above 6o mph on the flat.

So, Inspect rear drums for leaking cylinders, service rear drums, change fluid and adjust the linkage and the brakes begin to feel normal.

Edit; I sheared a nipple on the front calliper when doing the above. I tried screw extractors and drilling out plus pick out the remaining thread. In the end I couldn't trust the chewed up nipple hole so I got a new calliper from GSF.

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » 03 Sep 2011, 12:06

I think maybe you have a problem with a failed or maladjusted proportioning valve. Too much effort to the rears and not enough to the fronts.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 03 Sep 2011, 12:10

Another thing I considered was to buy some brake pads with Green pad material. They're supposed to give better performance.

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 03 Sep 2011, 15:57

right just been and cheekily test drove another car the same!
it felt better but still not fantastic,
so ours definately isn't right, I looked under the rear of the car and can't see a load valve anywhere so presume this model doesn't have one, if they do where are they??
I can't see any damp at all on the rear drum/hubs so don't think they have a leak or anything,
how do I adjust the break pedal to get rid of any slack as i looked and can't see any adjustment,
can't see any leaks on the system at all,
can't bleed the front breaks now as nipples both sheared so I'm too scared to even touch the rears! servo seems to work, master cylinder has no leaks, trouble is if i change any of that it means I have to get new calipers to bleed the system which we just can't afford at the mo!
bloody car!

Post by **DHallworth** » 03 Sep 2011, 20:27

My gran had a 2003 Citroen Saxo Desire (1.1 with no ABS).

I don't remember much about the brakes on it but don't remember them being that bad.

I could definitely get it to lock the fronts on a dry road by jumping on the pedal though!

We sold that one in 2010 with 13k miles on it.

David.

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 03 Sep 2011, 21:45

Clamping the flexis one at a time with a proper or suitable clamp can help trace air in calipers or trouble at M/C or BPV.

imperial21 · Post by **imperial21** » 03 Sep 2011, 22:52

Saxo brakes have always been pants ! I have bought and sold loads of them, You can adjust the brake linkage, If i remeber rightly its behind the servo, I think its covered with a rubber boot.
If the cars history does nt show it having brake fluid replaced i would recomend a fluid change ( obviously you need to sort your calipers first) When the rear adjusters fail you tend to have long brake pedal travel, The adjusters are a really poor design when they failed i found it cheaper to change the shoes with new adjusters already fitted, Quentin and Hazel brand.
The saxos do seem to be getting to an age of failing cylinders i have done a few, can be a pain trying to undo the brake pipe !!

addo · Post by **addo** » 03 Sep 2011, 23:38

Being non-ABS it will have a proportioning valve; follow the two brake lines to the rear and look about where the beam is on the offside.

Basically the rear lines are very hard to bleed of all air as the "U" shape of the flexes traps it to an extent. When you push the pedal down this hidden air is compressed... I experimented by plugging the outlet ports of a proportioning valve - one is a 10mm thread, the other 12mm from memory. After doing this the brakes got noticeably fimer - fronts only!

In the same manner you can plug the tees where rear brake lines split off from the master or distribution blocks, the front brakes will bleed up easily and feel rock solid.

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 04 Sep 2011, 16:09

I can't see a preportioning valve anywhere at all, i got right under the car and it just seemed to have a pipe going straight to the drums couldn't see anything in between, is it definately on the drivers side??

I can't see how you'd get behind the servo to adjust the linkage as the servo is tight on the bulkhead!

what do you mean plug the t's???

cheers guys

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 04 Sep 2011, 17:49

i dont think all Saxos had alimmiter valve as i seem to remember being asked by the factors if it did or not,

because if not they had valves in the wheel cylinders,

if you post the last 8 digits of your chassis/VIN No. i will check what system you have on service citroen,

regards malcolm

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » 04 Sep 2011, 18:00

Looking at the manual it seems that some of the early cars with rear drum brakes don't have a proportioning valve. There is one on the ABS cars and those with rear discs.
The Xsara has one on all models.