saxo breaks not very good

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 02 Sep 2011, 17:32

Hi Guys, bought a saxo 1.4 auto yesterday for the mrs, it's only done 37k and it's really nice, didn't test drive it as we got it off an old man who insisted we wouldn't be insured! my mum drove it home as my mrs hasn't passed yet and when we got back she said the breaks were a bit crap, thinking it's because she drives a new car! I jumped in and had a go and blimey she was right! it was quite hard to stop! so i looked in the history and saw that the last service and the one before both advised discs and pads needed doing, so i had a look and they didn't look that bad but I thought i'd do it anyway, so i went out today, god new front discs and pads, put them on (great as didn't even need to take the caliper off!!like most cars) but as i exitedly test drove it,,,,,,, it felt the same!! so I suppose now i need to test servo, it's non abs, put foot on pedal started it and the pedal went down, can't remember if it should or not, or is there something else I should check that might be common on these??
Please help the mrs wants lessons but I am not giving them with these breaks!!
Richie

Post by **Peter.N.** » 02 Sep 2011, 19:29

Hi Richie

Yes it should, that would seem to indicate that the servo is working but is it working well enough, there is not much else that will make the brakes inefficient. Discs and pads work better when they are bedded in so replacement usually reduces the efficiency. A check on a garage brake tester is what's really needed, that will tell you whether all the brakes are working and how efficiently.

Peter

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 02 Sep 2011, 19:52

how fare down does the pedle go and at what point does is seem to do anything,

did you copper slip the pads and the ends of the pads were they contact the callipers,

also did you check how free the calliper slide move,

the other thing i have seen on Saxo's is partly siezed remote mecanisum,

also remove the rear drums and grind off the lip on the inner edge of the drum if it has one,

then manualy adjust the shoe adjusters to the point you can just slide the drums back on without being to tight,

regards malcolm

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 02 Sep 2011, 20:13

Along the lines that Malcolm is talking the rear brakes can often be the cause of poor brakes where the pedal has excess travel, to test this pull up the handbrake just below the point where it bites then test the brakes both stationary and when moving with the handbrake in to same position, if the brakes improve you now know the cause is with the rear brakes being out of adjustment, adjust as Malcolm suggests.

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 02 Sep 2011, 20:18

Hi
The pedal seems to start biting fairly high but then don't do much until you push quite hard, I push hard and it still won't skid on grass so it's not working properly, I greased up all the slidy bits and the calipers were free and sliding back and forth,
what is the remote mechanism? that might be it as I have done loads of pads and discs before and know they need bedding in but there is definately something else a miss unless saxo breaks are just useless!!??
It's a 2001 car with 37k so doubt it's ever had new discs so just being on the safe side really,

any ideas??

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 02 Sep 2011, 20:39

Xantia sx auto wrote:The pedal seems to start biting fairly high but then don't do much until you push quite hard

What you describe there could be the front brakes starting to bite but due to slack at the rear the master cylinder is pushing more fluid into the system to take up the slack until the rears bite and the fronts then have something to push against so to speak (if that makes sense) at which point the brakes properly start to bite.

One other thing to test is to press the pedal down and maintain the pressure, if the pedal continues to move further down you have a master cylinder leaking internally.

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 02 Sep 2011, 20:49

oh ok
if i push the pedal down and hold it does not creep further, will try handbreak test tomorrow, how do i adjust the rears is it a screw behind the drum and which way do i turn it?

could this be air in the system? although I have no idea how it got in there!

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 02 Sep 2011, 21:02

Xantia sx auto wrote:how do i adjust the rears is it a screw behind the drum and which way do i turn it?

I haven't worked on a Saxo for years but IIRC there will be a little rubber bung on the backplate but the best way to do it will be as Malcolm describes, pull the drum off, inspect the slave cylinders for leakage etc then adjust as described.

Xantia sx auto wrote:could this be air in the system?

Possibly but normally if its due to air, pumping the brakes will help get the pressure back.

As you've gone so far already its best to finish off the job as described then bleed through the system.

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 02 Sep 2011, 21:10

citronut wrote:how fare down does the pedle go and at what point does is seem to do anything,

did you copper slip the pads and the ends of the pads were they contact the callipers,

also did you check how free the calliper slide move,

the other thing i have seen on Saxo's is partly siezed remote mecanisum,

also remove the rear drums and grind off the lip on the inner edge of the drum if it has one,

then manualy adjust the shoe adjusters to the point you can just slide the drums back on without being to tight,

regards malcolm

how do I manually adjust the shoe adjusters??
thanks

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 02 Sep 2011, 21:56

Xantia sx auto wrote:how do I manually adjust the shoe adjusters??

When you have the drum off, in between the brake shoes you will normally see a bar (sometimes two) with the handbrake mechanism working off of a lever arm from the top of the rear shoe. Now depending upon the system used there will either be a turn wheel on a threaded rod or a ratchet arm/lever working on the bottom of the lever swinging from the top of the rear shoe, so to adjust the shoes either turn the wheel or lever the ratchet arm until the drum can just be refitted, if you can't work the ratchet get an assistant to very gently press down on the brake pedal for a couple of clicks at a time. Don't worry if you go too far with the ratchet system (provided you don't allow your assistant to push the slave cylinder piston out!), you can release the ratchet by pulling/levering the lower arm away from the upper arm. Sounds complicated but isn't, the best piece of advice I'll give you is to only dismantle one side at a time so that you still have the other side to refer to

A Haynes manual explains it clearer than me and has pictures

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 02 Sep 2011, 22:52

as DickieG (Richard ) says,

if you post the last 8 digits of your chassis/VIN No. i wil look what type you have on service citroen,

then try to explain more clearly how to adjust,

the remote linkage runs across the blulk head from the back of the pedle to the back of the servo, and in the engine compartment,

regards malcolm

C.J. · Post by **C.J.** » 03 Sep 2011, 08:54

I have also just purchased a saxo 1.4 furio to clean up and move on, and can also confirm that the brakes are generally crap.
Recently passed its mot so I guess it's just something to learn to live with.

My AX GT brakes are also dreadful, but you do get used to them by compensating with a heavier right hoof.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 03 Sep 2011, 09:22

in my experiance of AX's and Saxo's low braking effort is usualy down to either sticking/tight pads, calliper pistons or calliper slide not moveing as free as they should,

although as my earlier replies there can be other factors, but the above would be were i would look first,

regards malcolm

C.J. · Post by **C.J.** » 03 Sep 2011, 09:34

citronut wrote:in my experiance of AX's and Saxo's low braking effort is usualy down to either sticking/tight pads, calliper pistons or calliper slide not moveing as free as they should,

although as my earlier replies there can be other factors, but the above would be were i would look first,

regards malcolm

Common on all AX's apparently.
Something was wittered to me many years ago that it was because it's a car built for LHD, and therefore everything under the bonnet brake related is the wrong way 'round.
Had them overhauled and rebuilt with new discs calipers pads and shoes, and they were always still pretty crap tbh.

ABS was never required as it's virtually inmpossible to lock up!

xantia sx auto · Post by **xantia sx auto** » 03 Sep 2011, 10:37

right, just done the handbreak test and the handbreak bites before it even reaches the first click, held it up just before biting point, and hey presto,,,, still crap!! I can't believe this could be normal, you'd never do an emergency stop! so it'd not the rear breaks causing it as they seem to bite straight away,
i'm running out of ideas now!!