Towing weight question

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Post by citronut »

KP wrote:A sorted 2.1td Xantia hatch or estate should do it.

no worse than having a 1.9td boot filled(and I mean FILLED) with 2*2 flagstones, about 14 all in!


it's not so much if the car will pull what you are towing, but more if what your pulling will overcome the tow car weight for weght,

and a boot full of flag stones is not quite the same as towing something,

i have seen a GS estate full up to the brim with flag stones and she didnt even twitch,

regards malcolm
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Post by jgra1 »

Early style Jeep Cherokees are good like that as well.

wasnt jgra1 John selling a Cheroke Jeep or the like running on LPG,
neil, what a shame.. my dad's cherokee was in Newcastle . would have been ideal as a tower.. could have become an FCF towcar in fact :)

think it has gone now.. can check.


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Post by fifth_cit »

Caravan Club and Camping Club advise not to tow more than 85% of the tow vehicles kerb weight (unladen weight).

The hand book for my tourer says it can tow more than it actually weighs but then you are pulling not towing. The tow vehicle needs to be able to control the trailer.

Believe me it is not funny when the tail starts to wag the dog !
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Post by myglaren »

citronut wrote: i have seen a GS estate full up to the brim with flag stones and she didnt even twitch,

regards malcolm
I've done that with my GS :)
Sacks of sand too.
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Post by dieselnutjob »

I don't know what my caravan weighs but it must be over 1000kg with all the c#@& we have in there.

I have found our 806 HDI to be a superb tow vehicle. The only let down is that with extension mirrors on the mirrors blow back. I have to tie them with string to keep them folding.

I have had our caravan up to 70mph on French motorways and it was as stable as a rock. The caravan started bouncing up and down but never showed any sign of snaking.

The manufacturers towing limits are pretty ridiculous and are set on the basis of whether the car can start the weight on a certain slope. The limits say nothing about stability.

There are a number of factors that affect stability and in general a caravan should have something like 7% of its weight on the tow hitch. As the nose weight is reduced, the stability is reduced. A manufacturers nose weight limit of 65kg is going to limit the safe caravan weight to about 950kg....

Personally I would rather break the nose weight limit than have an unstable rig so that's what I do even though it's against the rules, but you could (I believe) get into trouble for doing that.

As someone else said, the 806/Synergy has a long wheelbase and a short rear overhang which makes it much more stable that an estate car of a similar weight. I would be much happier towing a heavy trailer/caravan with our 806 than even our 607 which is actually heavier, for that reason. The 806 also seems to have fairly tough rear springs as standard.

Just make sure that nothing heavy is in the back of the caravan, with heaviest stuff over the axle, and you'll be fine.
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Post by xmexclusive »

One of these days the Highways Agency will get tired of persecuting just lorry drivers for overweight axles and exceeding vehicle specific reduced speed limits at their automatic moving traffic weighing sites. More of those being installed each year. Looks like it will be real fun when they add in the algorithms to detect cars with trailers and caravans. Particularly if they do not declare which of the monitoring limits they select to use.

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Post by kenhall1202 »

The manufacturer's maximum figures for Gross vehicle weight and Gross train weight are normally stamped on the vehicle VIN plate.
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Post by dieselnutjob »

As I said, it will almost certainly be the stupidly low nose weight limit that most caravan towers will be breaking, most of them without even knowing it.

A couple of gas bottles in the nose locker of the caravan will normally do it.

Luckily it would require VOSA to actually stop you, disconnect the trailer and measure the nose weight to know if you've broken it. I'd like to know if it is actually illegal to break the manufacturers maximum nose weight limits.
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Post by daviemck2006 »

The only time I ever checked the noseweight I was towing a 1991 Elddis Cyclone with the 806 1.9td. Plate on towbar on car said max noseweight 70kg, weighed nose weight how we usually loaded it had 81kg. Normally van towed a dream, very stable. The only thing I moved in van was the spare wheel from lying on floor at front to lying on floor at rear and noseweight came down to 71kg. Hitched up and off we went, within 10 miles had shifted spare forward again due to the swinging experienced. I was surprised how so little made such a big difference on the road. Never weighed a noseweight since, probablt too heavy with current combination of C5 and Bailley Pagent, but tows beautifully so not checking. I can just lift the nose, If I couldnt lift it I would consider lightening it.
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Post by dieselnutjob »

yes mine is similar
I'm thinking of getting one of those spare wheel carriers that slings underneath
it's not far from the axle so shouldn't affect stability I reckon
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Post by daviemck2006 »

I got one of those on the bailley, and the spare lives inside. Van was 4 years old when we bought it two yrs ago, took ages to get spare out cos all the moving parts were siezed, need to be about 3 feet away from kerb or verge, and have about 1 inch of clearance getting it out. Also near impossible to check pressure under van. Good idea in principle, but flawed in practise.
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Post by Dippy »

Apologies if this is repetitive .

The Police ( accompanied by men in white coats ) were showing a keen interest in caravans/trailers on the M5 a couple of years ago .
Apparently it was part of a survey into the condition of the outfits concerned .

and the effect ( if any ) that caravans had on overall Motorway traffic speeds .( none as it turned out - which will pig Mr Clarkson Off)

I am led to beleive that the police go on manufacturers figures / weight ratings .

Cutting to the chase - according to my Citroen handbook

Synergie - all models

Gross Trailer weight ( with brakes ) 1300Kg

Trailer nose weight 60Kg

IMHO the % rule for nose weight is another Euro - Politician red herring . its where you place the load inside the van' that counts. e.g nothing of any weight rearmost.

Plates on towbars indicate the max loading of THAT particular Towbar , not the vehicle it's attatched to.

In 30 + years of caravanning I have only ever owned one van' that left the factory with its noseweight as specified ! They were all MUCH Higher than specified ! including the so called lightweight van's

Though not strictly legal , I run at 65Kg noseweight + whatever (dynamic) load the spring - leaf type stabiliser applies which dimishes with speed ( caravan lift)

I too agree that underslung spare carriers are rubbish .
If struggling with high noseweight ? put the spare in the tow vehicle or over the axle inside the van' , though I would never - ever place a gas cyld in a car - UXB.

Using a lightweight gas bottles makes a significant difference .

By sheer coincidence our current Van's max possible gross weight ' matches the Synergies max tow weight .(1300Kg)

in practice we are well under it ( 1175Kg) laden ( caravan)

A local weighbridge is a useful tool :idea:

* Our overall journey times ( towing in daytime) due to modern traffic , are much the same as when I towed with a Vauxhall Viva ( Max legal speed 50 m.p.h in those days )

Moving - on , my 1.9 TD syn' will keep up with and pass trucks etc ( not on hills ) , due in no small part to its low gearing , 60 m.p.h is just where the max torque is .its no sprinter off the mark though - as if that matters.

Easily the most stable towcar ever owned :) , including a 1970's V8 Rangy' which never saw double figures when towing at 60 :shock: ( less than 10 m.p.g) you could get a few gallons for a quid then........

We now tow through the night , not in the heat / traffic of the day.
Last edited by Dippy on 25 Jul 2011, 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dippy »

dieselnutjob wrote:I have found our 806 HDI to be a superb tow vehicle. The only let down is that with extension mirrors on the mirrors blow back. I have to tie them with string to keep them folding.
just make sure that nothing heavy is in the back of the caravan, with heaviest stuff over the axle, and you'll be fine.
Agreed, The Syn'/806 Mirror casings are ineadequate - not strong enough to hold extension mirrors - I broke one :roll:

:idea: I made this up from a couple of ancient tow - mirrors , the ones that used to fit on vehicle front wings .

A bit of tweaking to the top mounting ( which originally fitted between front wing / bonnet gap on older cars ) and protective tape - bingo.

Despite appearances the mirror sits - out more than enough , and is easily viewable at a glance . 8-) rock solid too. No additional mirror req'd for N/S due to driver's angle of view .

Hope this helps.

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Re: Towing weight question

Post by mlkey »

naffa wrote:Hi guys its a '98 Synergie petrol and I've had a towbar fitted to pull a 875kg caravan. I'm assuming this is ok for the car?
What is the maximum towing weight for my Synergie?

I've done a search but cant seem to find anything.

Thanks Nathan
Hi Nathan,

You vehicle has a maximum towing limit of 1300kg, although this will put it very slightly over the 85%. Towing a van of up to 1000kg should present no issues providing you load it correctly, and take note of the noseweight. I am not sure if you have the 8v or 16v engine, but I tow with a 2004 C5 2.0i 16v (not HPI) petrol auto, and tug a 1000kg van around without too much trouble, although the C5 is best part of 200kg lighter than the Synergie.

Another good website re towing is: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

Hope that helps,

Regards,

Mike.
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Re: Towing weight question

Post by Dippy »

mlkey wrote:
naffa wrote:Hi guys its a '98 Synergie petrol and I've had a towbar fitted to pull a 875kg caravan. I'm assuming this is ok for the car?
What is the maximum towing weight for my Synergie?

I've done a search but cant seem to find anything.

Thanks Nathan
Hi Nathan,

You vehicle has a maximum towing limit of 1300kg, although this will put it very slightly over the 85%. Towing a van of up to 1000kg should present no issues providing you load it correctly, and take note of the noseweight. I am not sure if you have the 8v or 16v engine, but I tow with a 2004 C5 2.0i 16v (not HPI) petrol auto, and tug a 1000kg van around without too much trouble, although the C5 is best part of 200kg lighter than the Synergie.

Another good website re towing is: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

Hope that helps,

Regards,

Mike.
:?: In the ( very elementary ) learning establishments that I hardly attended 85% of 1300Kg = 1105 Kg which leaves you well underweight.

The 85% " rule " is only a recommendation , not UK Law. predominently aimed at newcomers who go too fast usually . albeit a very sensible one .
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