Information on 1.6 C5 Hdi

jmd · Post by **jmd** » 15 Apr 2011, 00:24

I'm a satisfied Xantia 2.0 Hdi owner. Considering a change to the C5 1.6 Hdi. 2005 -2006 model. Has anybody any advice/comments to offer regarding this (1.6 Hdi) engine. Is it as trouble -free, and as reliable as the 2.0 Xantia Hdi ?

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 15 Apr 2011, 00:59

Stick to the 2.0HDI.

The 1.6 is a nuisance : weak clutch, weak DM flywheel and no solid flywheel for retrofit.
The turbo is prone to premature failure due to optimistic oil change intervals.

There is a retrofit solid flywheel available now to replace the DM one on the 2.0.
And its a lot cheaper than a new DM flywheel.

mooseshaver · Post by **mooseshaver** » 15 Apr 2011, 09:10

I'm with Anders. Stick to the 2.0 HDi.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 15 Apr 2011, 12:33

Just to clarify the 2.0HDi mentioned is the 2.0HDi 110 8v as in the pre-facelifted or C5Is. It was not available in the facelifted C5s.

The later 2.0HDi 138 16v shares similar things to the 1.6 - DMF and FAP filters. Though it is a much livelier performer and its also more economical than the 110 2.0.

Id not let the DMF and FAP scare you off, it didn't with me, we have two!

1.6 HDi is a good engine, turbo failures have been known (not on the 2.0 138 that I know of) but its economical and very commonly available. I doubt its better on fuel than the 2.0 138 though, as thats got a 6 seed box and more power & torque so needs working less. Mine returned 50MPG on average.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 15 Apr 2011, 14:16

Citroenmad wrote:
Id not let the DMF and FAP scare you off, it didn't with me, we have two!

I would / will not let the DMF issue scare me off, however it should be a major consideration when purchasing secondhand.
Having looked seriously at 5 C5's now of all engine sizes with mileages in the 70K-100K three of them had to have the clutch and DMF flywheel changed between 70K and 100K. Now you may argue that five is not a big sample but it's big enough for me consider that clutch / flywheel failure is highly likely in the near term if buying a car with more than 80K on the clock.
It is now my first question "has the clutch or flywheel been changed" if the answer is no then there has to be an awful lot of other positives to stop me walking away.

cachaciero

Post by **RichardW** » 15 Apr 2011, 14:45

We did the clutch (and DMF) on my mates 2.0 HDi 138 at about 90k.....

Friction plate was barely worn. DMF and release bearing was FUBAR

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 15 Apr 2011, 14:46

Your right, as ever with any car purchase checking the condition of the clutch as best you can by driving the car and trying to make is slip is something you should do. However it is more important on the DMF cars.

DMFs are very common on modern cars now, especially diesels but also petrols. So this is in no way localized to C5s or HDi engines in general, a lot of other cars have problems with them and i dont think that any DMF is actually as robust as a solid one.

Many cars have DMFs which last a similar or less mileage than on the HDis.

What im saying is that if your looking at a modern diesel car, chances are it has a DMF so that is potentially something you might need to cost for in the future.

I do maintain though, usage has a lot to do with its effective mileage. If the clutch is abused and ridden to 'hold the car on the clutch' it will fail earlier than one which has been treated with respect.

wright · Post by **wright** » 19 Apr 2011, 00:20

I believe the 1.6 has a filter on the oil feed pipe to or from the turbo and that this a reason for the failure of the turbo on most occasions, its never usually changed and becomes blocked, I'd just take it out and throw it away, i've seen the turbos on 2 407's and one berlingo changed in the last few weeks for this problem, bmw's have this filter as well and has caused oil starvation of turbos when they become blocked through neglect

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 20 Apr 2011, 22:12

Don't know about a filter on the turbo but we've a C5 110k and a 307 70k both with the 1.6 hdi engine . The 307 has a particle filter warning showing so will be getting De-Fap'd, both run very well. I use the C5 for towing my Caravan and it's the best towcar I've ever owned,and I've been towing for 35 years. Posts on another forum reckon the turbo failure is down to the particle filter causing back pressure. Buying any second hand car is a lottery, so buy what YOU like .

wright · Post by **wright** » 20 Apr 2011, 23:11

follow the oil feed pipe coming off the top of the turbo down to the engine, its down there, it was on the 04 407 we did the turbo on 2 weeks ago

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 21 Apr 2011, 22:35

Hi I followed the pipe and it runs past the main oil filter and down behind the cat. I can't see any other filter.

wright · Post by **wright** » 22 Apr 2011, 21:23

the banjo bolt that holds the pipe onto the block there is a gauze or filter, some have gauze some have filter, a bloke i do a bit of work with has changed 3 turbos on the 1.6 engine in the last month and says they are there

daviemck2006 · Post by **daviemck2006** » 23 Apr 2011, 09:58

john alexander wrote:I use the C5 for towing my Caravan and it's the best towcar I've ever owned,and I've been towing for 35 years.

A bit off topic, but I currently have a mk1 2.2hdi for the caravan, and thinking about changing the car for something more economical, wary about doing so because the 2.2 is such a brilliant tow car. Do you not find the 1.6 a bit underpowered? My van is 1408kg, 18ft and quite a pull, old 2.0jtd ulyssee was ok but needed 4th gear quite often whereas the 2.2 sits all day long at 55 to 60 in 5th on the cruise if needed, returning 27mpg towing and 42-45 solo. Cant beat the hydraulic suspension for towing stability tho (and comfort)

jmd · Post by **jmd** » 24 Apr 2011, 11:46

Thanks for all your comments which have been most helpful. After all that I have decided to hold on to my Xantia 2 Hdi. returning an average of 57 MPG despite having covered 170,000 miles -and happily no engine, flywheel, turbo, or clutch problems to date. I was told recently (by a main dealer) that the sump on the 1.6 Hdi should be dropped at every second service, and the filter/strainer on the oil pump cleaned. Makes me wonder about manufacturers recommendations to carry out oil changes at 12,000 & 20,000 mile intervals. I think I'll still keep changing mine + filter, every 6.000 miles.