Geoffs C5 SX 2.0 HDi 110 51

[Geoff Lebowski]

Fist impressions: Pretty good actually. For a 10 year old car with 123K on the clock she goes very well indeed. Very quiet on the motorway and that's with my noisy foreign Sunny (delight) tyres with a tread pattern uncannily like the Pirelli 6000s.

Anyway, the good:
Road noise, low speed <40mph ride, comfort, low engine noise, good gearing, boot size, the windows down button for the dog

The Annoying: the darn soft touch plastic that disintegrates and feels sticky. Fairly souless, but it does seem to do it's job purposefully and I do like driving it. Dual zone - I now have to turn two knobs to set the temp! At motorway speeds, although the ride is still good, it feels 'choppy', as if it's conventionally sprung. It doesn't do the magic carpet thing that I love so much in the BX and XM.

The Questions:
1) Is it really 110 bhp? The XUD11 'felt' faster in the Xantia, this seems to have no real punch although it does pull happily in it's own time.
2)Is it me or do the headlamps flicker every now and then? Is was dark with no light interference.
3) Do I have this Eolys system? How do I find out?
4) There is an option on the screen for System Check, but holding the stalk button down doesn't release any codes - is this good or bad?
5) I didn't notice when I collected the car, but the time and date were wrong (time flashing). Being a suspicious type, does this mean the batt was disconnected to remove any faults codes or warnings?
6) The glow light hasn't come on, until this morning. Is pre-heating only needed whilst the light is on? i.e. if it doesn't come on, I can start straight away?
7) Hot or cold, it takes about 1 second of turning over to start. The Epic was always 'on the button' so to speak, the C5 certainly takes longer, not what I call prolonged cranking, but i expected the same as the Epic/ Xantia.
8) Apart from the ludicrously pricey units at Halfords, where do you get your 26" windscreen wiper from? £17.50 was the cheapest in Halfords!!!

That's it for now. Any answers gratefully received!

p.s. Thanks to Xac (I thinks it's Xac) as now I no longer have to use a poxy proxy and my posts won't be full of //////s!

[RichardW]

1) Is it really 110 bhp? The XUD11 'felt' faster in the Xantia, this seems to have no real punch although it does pull happily in it's own time.

Maybe, but the C5 is a bit lardy, and I suspect they have lengthened the final drive to get the economy up which blunts the performance (Our Picasso HDi 90 is a bit like that). Check for 2 air pipes over the engine - if only one then it's a 90.
2)Is it me or do the headlamps flicker every now and then? Is was dark with no light interference.
Yes - it's the load on the suspension pump
3) Do I have this Eolys system? How do I find out?
No - only on 2.2s at this age
4) There is an option on the screen for System Check, but holding the stalk button down doesn't release any codes - is this good or bad?
No idea
5) I didn't notice when I collected the car, but the time and date were wrong (time flashing). Being a suspicious type, does this mean the batt was disconnected to remove any faults codes or warnings?
Possibly...
6) The glow light hasn't come on, until this morning. Is pre-heating only needed whilst the light is on? i.e. if it doesn't come on, I can start straight away?
Probably about right - they heat pretty quick if required, and at +10 they're not needed.
7) Hot or cold, it takes about 1 second of turning over to start. The Epic was always 'on the button' so to speak, the C5 certainly takes longer, not what I call prolonged cranking, but i expected the same as the Epic/ Xantia.
Again, sounds about right - HDis don't start on first compression.
8) Apart from the ludicrously pricey units at Halfords, where do you get your 26" windscreen wiper from? £17.50 was the cheapest in Halfords!!!

Dunno...GSF?

[corsehf]

Hello Geoff,
Cannot answer all of your questions but some are well versed on this forum

1). Cannot answer this one as i have not driven either but have heard of similar complaints.

2). Do you have Xenon headlamps?? - if so then apparently, yes they do flicker!! - something to do with the suspension pump.

3). No, you should not have the Eolys tank nor a DPF. if you did you will have a 4HX code within your VIN number.

4). This is Good - very good!!

5). Cannot remove faults or codes by just disconnecting the battery.

6). I believe the HDi lump does not need glow plugs to start the car unless it is stupidly cold!!

7). Not sure about this one??

8). Never had to pay full whack for these as i use a trade card at Halfrauds which brings the price down to around £6. I have bought some from Fleabay before now - new style flat blades and under £10 for 2, weren't bad neither!!

Hope some of this helps??

[RichardW]

Re the wipers, this seller's blades were recommended for the Xantia on a thread a few weeks back (I've just got a set for mine, need to fit them!):

C5 blades

At £7 the pair, you can't go wrong really....!

[Geoff Lebowski]

Thank you both, I am relieved, mostly at the lack of Eolys and filter stuff! Phew!

It's def a 110 BHP according to every piece of paper and internet check I do. It also has an intercooler which I think is a giveaway that it's a 110.

I didn't think of the gearing, although it shares the same box as the Xantia 2.1TD which had longer gears as well, could still be different ratios I guess. It may well be a heavier car as well but it does lack punch. According to Cit Service I've a KKK turbo, whereas all my previous XUDs have had Garretts. Are KKKs a bit less 'coarse' than Garretts?

As an example, on a level dual carriageway yesterday with 2 adults, 2 kids, one dog and 1/2 tank diesel, she took 6 seconds to go from 70 to 75 and a further 4 to reach 80mph in top.

I'm not sure if they Xenons, they are pretty good though. How on earth does the HP pump make them flicker?

On the rest of it you have greatly reduced my concerns, esp no 4!

Thanks for the heads up on the wipers, I shall duly look at you link Richard.

[Paul-R]

4) There is an option on the screen for System Check, but holding the stalk button down doesn't release any codes - is this good or bad?

It doesn't display error codes as such - just any error messages (such as airbag, tyre pressures, ESP/ASR not working, etc) which flash up on the display when you start the engine.

7) Hot or cold, it takes about 1 second of turning over to start. The Epic was always 'on the button' so to speak, the C5 certainly takes longer, not what I call prolonged cranking, but i expected the same as the Epic/ Xantia.

That was one of the first things I noticed as well - it's like going back to petrol engine comparec to the half an engine revolution I had on my previous (mechanical) diesel.

I reckon it's to do with the time the engine driven high pressure pump takes to get the common rail to the right pressure.

[Citroenmad]

It sounds as though you quite like your new C5.

Which soft touch plastics are disintegrating and becoming sticky? DOesnt sound like mine. Dual zone is a bit of a pain in the S1, having to turn both sides. In the C5II it has been made so the drivers side operates the passengers, or individually too.

1) As your C5 is the SX trim it will be a 110bhp. However performance can drop off for various reasons, ive had this a few times on the 110s. MAFs failing, split air pipes, clogged EGR etc.

2) headlamps can flicker when the suspension pump cuts in. In my experience only some C5s do this. Your SX wont have xenons. The headlamps flicker as the suspension pump takes quite a lot of power to run it.

3) Your car has no FAP filter as its a 2.0 110 and therefore no Eolys fluid.

4) Ive not had any stored codes in there, its no substitute for a Lexia session.

5) It does sound as though the battery has been off or flat recently. Might be something or nothing.

6) Yes, HDis only need the glow plugs in very very cold weather, otherwise just turn the key and it goes.

7) Not sure about this, think its how they are.

8) Have you tried Citroen? Often cheaper for things like wipers etc than you might think. Our SX has aftermarket Bosch aero wipers which work very well. Later C5s have standard fit aero wipers with different arms, which are about £55 from Citroen.

[myglaren]

The others have answered all your questions adequately Geoff.
One thing puzzles me though - what soft-touch sticky feeling plastic?
I have an identical C5 and haven't encountered that anywhere yet.

As for the wipers, I'm teetering on the brink of buying the eBay ones.
The ones I have on have been there since I bought the car, five years ago.

I did go to my local guy for new ones - he only had Bosch ones and they were very pricey but he xamined mine, said I didn't need new ones, cleaned the screen with meths (Glasgae Brandy he calls it - he is a Scot ) and they are still plodding on. Could well be originals.

I had a 'waterless car wash' three weeks ago and the wipers haven't worked properly since, some coating on the screen that I have been unable to shift.
Must give it another go, been washed a lot since and it has rained quite a bit too, dreadful first off in a morning.

[Citroenmad]

Juddering wipers you mean Steve?

I use Hob Brite to clean my screen, supposed to be used for cleaning ceramic kitchen hobs but as its a very effective degreaser its perfect for windscreens. Ive cured many juddering wipers with that.

[myglaren]

No, they don't judder (used to before the meths), just leave a 'coating' on the screen - not smears but an opalescent film.

I'm sure it isn't the wipers as the coating is on all the glass and wasn't there prior to the waterless wash.

[KevMayer]

If you think the performance isn't what you expect then, from my recent experience, do something to clean out the inlet manifold and inlet valves. Take the manifold off and clean it if possible. Otherwise use an aerosol spray.

I've recently used a spray to clean out my inlet manifold, inlet valves and EGR valve and it's transformed my 2.2 Hdi.

[Geoff Lebowski]

Thanks for all the answers and help.

What sort of spray Kev?

CM - Hob Brite - what a bl@@dy brilliant idea. I have these unmoveable stains on my BX windscreen and it\'s driving me nuts. I\'ll give it a go!

MG - what\'s a waterless wash??!!

The soft-touch plastics - things like the door grab handles, the electric window switch console in the drivers door. Both front grab handles have lots of this missing, exposing the harder plastic underneath. You can scrape it away with your fingernail - which I\'m tempted to do and then give them a good wash in soapy water. All this soft touch stuff is sticky too. Even the radio volume knob is suffereing.

I do like it on the whole CM, I prefer it to my Xantia. For me, I\'ll take the BX any day, but this is the family car and has more of a job to do, ultimately it has to be safe, reliable and not cost much, which I\'m fairly confident it will be. £125 p.a. for road tax is a very good start!

Speaking of costs, one question I failed to ask was about the dual mass flywheel.
How exactly do they fail?
Is it that common or say a fail \'garunteed\' at X thousand miles?
When it fails (or should I say \'if\' it fails) what are the symptoms?

[RichardW]

DMF....

How? The internal rubber elements start to break up which allows the inner part to flop about.
Symptoms? Initially maybe a squeak or clonk on engine starting / stopping. Progressing to rattle / knocking / roughness on taking up drive. Eventually it may fall apart and eject the inner part and clutch trhough the bellhousing / radiator / anything else that's in the way
When? Any time after 30k miles seemingly, depending on how it's driven - changed the one in my mate's 2.0 HDI 138 at 90k in January - the DMF was well past it (he was at the rattle / knocking stage), but the actual friction plate was barely worn. If it's OK at the moment, just keep driving it.

Bear in mind that heat seems to be the killer of DMFs, so don't abuse the clutch - don't hold it on hills, try and avoid slipping it too much on pull away, and definitely don't ride it!

[Geoff Lebowski]

Perfect Richard - tells me all I wanted to know. I wasn\'t looking to replace it as a precaution, more just wanting to be aware of symptoms and helpfully you\'ve also included likely causes.

I didn\'t realise it was a rubber sandwhich type of thing - sort of similar to the auxilliary damper pulleys??? Seems like a daft idea really, is all this in the name of reducing sharp variations in torque being transmitted?

actually, does my C5 have a damper aux pulley as standard?

[Citroenmad]

Our C5 2.0HDi 110 SX had its dual mass flywheel replaced at around 60K miles - the friction plate was reportedly very good still. It was replaced with a solid flywheel and has now covered more miles with that than its original DMF.

Yes, the DMF is designed to take out some vibration from the drive train. As a conventional clutch has springs and flex in the friction plate, the fitting of a solid flywheel does not seem to hinder the car in anyway.

For that reason im skeptical as to the reason and need for a DMF.