Sorry, I only just saw your response now. FCF (or something) has a habit of marking posts read before I've read themThe Birdman wrote:Incidents and Solutions
Cheers for the pointer!
C5 Lexia questions
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myglaren
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Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX - x 4917
If you wander off and leave your computer - or the site - without refreshing for a while, it will do that.MikeT wrote:Sorry, I only just saw your response now. FCF (or something) has a habit of marking posts read before I've read themThe Birdman wrote:Incidents and Solutions
Cheers for the pointer!
It is a nuisance - I often get called away - usually a few minutes after opening the forum and when I come back all the posts I haven't read are marked read.
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MikeT
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Yeah, I've noticed that happen before now, Steve.myglaren wrote:If you wander off and leave your computer - or the site - without refreshing for a while, it will do that.MikeT wrote:Sorry, I only just saw your response now. FCF (or something) has a habit of marking posts read before I've read themThe Birdman wrote:Incidents and Solutions
Cheers for the pointer!
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Allanxantia
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Right, OK, I give up......
Does anyone know any of the science behind economy mode to help me work this one out?
We have re-flashed the BSI and it still goes straight on to it as soon as the engne stops. What is the score with current drain triggering it etc, I'm sure I read it somewhere?
Oh and we also uninstalled the alarm , just in case
Does anyone know any of the science behind economy mode to help me work this one out?
We have re-flashed the BSI and it still goes straight on to it as soon as the engne stops. What is the score with current drain triggering it etc, I'm sure I read it somewhere?
Oh and we also uninstalled the alarm , just in case
2002 C5 V6 Exclusive auto LPG
1997 Xantia TD SX £200 bargain
1993 Xantia DLX (now dead)
Then after a 10 year Citroenless gap
1995N Xantia Activa
1997 Xantia TD SX £200 bargain
1993 Xantia DLX (now dead)
Then after a 10 year Citroenless gap
1995N Xantia Activa
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deuchebleu
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Don't take these figures as gospel as my memory is a bit hazy but for the C4 Picasso it works like this. If the engine has been running for more than 30m you get the full 30m economy mode. After it has gone into economy mode once you then need to restart the engine. If you run for more than 30m you get 30m again. If not you get half the time the engine has run for. If you run for less than 5m you get nothing.Allanxantia wrote:Right, OK, I give up......
Does anyone know any of the science behind economy mode to help me work this one out?
As far as I know the 30m is not configureable.
John
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Allanxantia
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myglaren
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Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX - x 4917
Mine is very consistent.
If I leave the CD player running, it goes into economy mode after 45 minutes.
Nothing works other than the central locking - the lights don't flash on lock/unlock and the windows won't open/close remotely.
Run the engine briefly (one minute or less) and it resets to 45 minutes.
Just put a new battery on and it operates exactly the same.
If I leave the CD player running, it goes into economy mode after 45 minutes.
Nothing works other than the central locking - the lights don't flash on lock/unlock and the windows won't open/close remotely.
Run the engine briefly (one minute or less) and it resets to 45 minutes.
Just put a new battery on and it operates exactly the same.
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Allanxantia
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- x 2
Does anyone know where the alarm siren is on my C5 V6. I've seen a few posts that it can cause problems as the battery nears the en of it's life. Its pretty tight around the engine bay with the V6 and all the LPG gubbins and I can't see it
2002 C5 V6 Exclusive auto LPG
1997 Xantia TD SX £200 bargain
1993 Xantia DLX (now dead)
Then after a 10 year Citroenless gap
1995N Xantia Activa
1997 Xantia TD SX £200 bargain
1993 Xantia DLX (now dead)
Then after a 10 year Citroenless gap
1995N Xantia Activa
Allanxantia wrote:Right, OK, I give up......
Does anyone know any of the science behind economy mode to help me work this one out?
We have re-flashed the BSI and it still goes straight on to it as soon as the engne stops. What is the score with current drain triggering it etc, I'm sure I read it somewhere?
Oh and we also uninstalled the alarm , just in case
Hi there,
I am also experiencing the immediately active economy mode upon turning off the car symptoms of your C5. Mine is a C5 V6 Exclusive, which I bought only last month. It had some strange electronic behaviours that I paid a local French car specialist workshop a fortune not to fix, but I won't go into that here.
What I have found is that the car now goes immediately into ecoomy mode when it is turned off. It did not do so prior to the work by the mechanics, who essentially replaced the BSI unit but didn't solve the behaviour for which I took the car to them. What I have now is a car with a new BSI unit but the same electronic issues it had previously, and a new feature that the economy mode is activated immediately the car is turned off.
Anyway, I'm wondering if you have progressed to a solution for your car to overcome the immediate activation of economy mode when turning the car off?
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addo
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You might do well to expand a little on your location - there are some overrated workshops, but at least allow your countrymen the luxury of more focused suspicions...
Have you tried the basics as mentioned earlier in this thread (I think!) - such as battery load testing and the BSI sleep/waking rigmarole?
Have you tried the basics as mentioned earlier in this thread (I think!) - such as battery load testing and the BSI sleep/waking rigmarole?
I don't want to point a finger of blame at a specific workshop. I'm sure that the people there are doing their best to overcome a situation that they say they have not previously encountered. I just find the results so far have not improved on the condition that caused me to take the car there in the first place, but have cost me a disproportionate percentage of the value of the car.
Regarding other steps, I had a new battery fitted to car after I purchased it, because I was not happy with the tiny battery that the dealer from whom I purchasd had fitted to the car the morning that I picked it up. He claimed he did so as he found the battery in the car to be dead flat and didn't want to give me a car that wouldn't start. The battery voltage is fine. I initially thought that the problems could have been caused by the fitting of the new battery by the dealer not having followed what I discovered is the recommended Citroen method to avoid potential damage to the BSI unit. It may have caused issues with the BSI, but subsequent experience tells me that something else is awry in the car.
As a new and never before Citroen owner, I have been on a steep learning curve regarding idiosyncracies of the breed, but the workshop to which I took it assured me that they tried resetting the original BSI multiple times and that they uploaded the latest software version to it. This was before they concluded that the BSI unit was the cause of my problems and had to be replaced. Replacement led to the original symptoms persisting, plus the onset of immediate economy mode upon turning the engine off, which is the original issue of this particular listing.
They then discovered that the other symptoms in my car are alleviated by disconnection of the radio, but return if the radio is reconnected or if a new (i.e. different but still Citroen OE) radio is connected. I can't see how it can be a BSI fault, or a radio fault, given that the symptoms prevail even after the BSI and the radio have been replaced.
I'm puzzled by the addition of the economy mode active condition with the new BSI. The workshop assures me that they have not reset the activation delay to zero, which had been a guess on my part as a measure intended to offset the other electronic symptoms, which are that the ignition spontaneously turns on about three minutes after the car is turned off. At least, it appears to be the ignition turning on, in that the warning lights, the dash lights and the AC screen all illuminate, as occurs when the ignition is on. This happens with no key in the ignition switch and regardless of whether the car is locked and, if locked, irrespective of whether it is locked by the remote or by key.
I did ask the workshop if they had tried the original BSI in the car once they discovered that disconnection of the radio prevented the spontaneous turning on of the ignition. They said that they did try it back in the car, but that the car would not start. I'm not sure if they would have had to recode it to the car for that to be a realistic test, but gather that they did not do that in any event. They do not seem to be prepared to consider that the original BSI may not have been in need of replacement.
The workshop has identified the CD stacker as the latest potential culprit. The CD stacker somehow is powered whether or not the radio is connected. I would have expected that it would be powered from the radio, but apparently not. Btw, if the radio is left connected it works perfectly well, as does the CD stacker, when the car is running.
I'm no expert, but I can't see the fault being with the BSI unit or the radio. Potentially there is some short in the wiring harness, but I can't understand how that would spontaneously turn the ignition on after a three minute or so delay when the car is turned off. I'd have expected any short to be permanent and likely to mean that the car could not be turned off at all. I don't know enough to know if there is something associated with the radio that is powered by the BSI only when the BSI goes into sleep mode which could be the supply that is shorted to the ignition somehow. I wouldn't expect there to be such a thing; perhaps someone could enlighten me if there is.
The possibility of a wiring anomaly could exist as the car did have an aftermarket mobile phone set up wired in when acquired. This was not a Citroen installation and was removed by the workshop, as a potential cause of the problems, but they did not identify any residual problems after its removal, or indeed any cause and effect with its fitting, and do not seem to consider it to have been the culprit.
I have to say that I've never had a comparable experience with any other car that I've owned and it is hardly an ideal introuction to the pleasures of Citroen ownership. My previous association with Citroens have been two occasions when I had Citroens as lease/hire cars on holidays (an AX and a C3). They behaved impeccably, but were new vehicles and, at least for the AX, did not have the reliance on electronics of the current models.
All in all, not an auspicious start to Citroen ownership and one that leaves me ambivalent regarding how long I am likely to remain a Citroen owner.
Regarding other steps, I had a new battery fitted to car after I purchased it, because I was not happy with the tiny battery that the dealer from whom I purchasd had fitted to the car the morning that I picked it up. He claimed he did so as he found the battery in the car to be dead flat and didn't want to give me a car that wouldn't start. The battery voltage is fine. I initially thought that the problems could have been caused by the fitting of the new battery by the dealer not having followed what I discovered is the recommended Citroen method to avoid potential damage to the BSI unit. It may have caused issues with the BSI, but subsequent experience tells me that something else is awry in the car.
As a new and never before Citroen owner, I have been on a steep learning curve regarding idiosyncracies of the breed, but the workshop to which I took it assured me that they tried resetting the original BSI multiple times and that they uploaded the latest software version to it. This was before they concluded that the BSI unit was the cause of my problems and had to be replaced. Replacement led to the original symptoms persisting, plus the onset of immediate economy mode upon turning the engine off, which is the original issue of this particular listing.
They then discovered that the other symptoms in my car are alleviated by disconnection of the radio, but return if the radio is reconnected or if a new (i.e. different but still Citroen OE) radio is connected. I can't see how it can be a BSI fault, or a radio fault, given that the symptoms prevail even after the BSI and the radio have been replaced.
I'm puzzled by the addition of the economy mode active condition with the new BSI. The workshop assures me that they have not reset the activation delay to zero, which had been a guess on my part as a measure intended to offset the other electronic symptoms, which are that the ignition spontaneously turns on about three minutes after the car is turned off. At least, it appears to be the ignition turning on, in that the warning lights, the dash lights and the AC screen all illuminate, as occurs when the ignition is on. This happens with no key in the ignition switch and regardless of whether the car is locked and, if locked, irrespective of whether it is locked by the remote or by key.
I did ask the workshop if they had tried the original BSI in the car once they discovered that disconnection of the radio prevented the spontaneous turning on of the ignition. They said that they did try it back in the car, but that the car would not start. I'm not sure if they would have had to recode it to the car for that to be a realistic test, but gather that they did not do that in any event. They do not seem to be prepared to consider that the original BSI may not have been in need of replacement.
The workshop has identified the CD stacker as the latest potential culprit. The CD stacker somehow is powered whether or not the radio is connected. I would have expected that it would be powered from the radio, but apparently not. Btw, if the radio is left connected it works perfectly well, as does the CD stacker, when the car is running.
I'm no expert, but I can't see the fault being with the BSI unit or the radio. Potentially there is some short in the wiring harness, but I can't understand how that would spontaneously turn the ignition on after a three minute or so delay when the car is turned off. I'd have expected any short to be permanent and likely to mean that the car could not be turned off at all. I don't know enough to know if there is something associated with the radio that is powered by the BSI only when the BSI goes into sleep mode which could be the supply that is shorted to the ignition somehow. I wouldn't expect there to be such a thing; perhaps someone could enlighten me if there is.
The possibility of a wiring anomaly could exist as the car did have an aftermarket mobile phone set up wired in when acquired. This was not a Citroen installation and was removed by the workshop, as a potential cause of the problems, but they did not identify any residual problems after its removal, or indeed any cause and effect with its fitting, and do not seem to consider it to have been the culprit.
I have to say that I've never had a comparable experience with any other car that I've owned and it is hardly an ideal introuction to the pleasures of Citroen ownership. My previous association with Citroens have been two occasions when I had Citroens as lease/hire cars on holidays (an AX and a C3). They behaved impeccably, but were new vehicles and, at least for the AX, did not have the reliance on electronics of the current models.
All in all, not an auspicious start to Citroen ownership and one that leaves me ambivalent regarding how long I am likely to remain a Citroen owner.
Moi, Je ne sais rien ...
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addo
- Sara Watson's Stalker
- Posts: 7098
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- Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
- My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147 - x 93
It's sounding very similar in traits to a Xsara I am grappling with - on and off - at present. In that case, having seen the fault logs I suspect there may be a shorted diode in the alternator.
Your dealers could also do some simple tests such as current draw at rest, and looking at the voltage waveform when running, rather than just playing unplug, swap and guessing games.
Your dealers could also do some simple tests such as current draw at rest, and looking at the voltage waveform when running, rather than just playing unplug, swap and guessing games.