Help and advise needed

bxman · Post by **bxman** » 16 Feb 2011, 12:28

My 1.8 16 v stopped while at traffic lights late last night in the rain

and would not restart. People kindly pushed me into a filling station .
It may have happened while coasting into the lights certainly more than 1200 rpm and there was no noise apparent until attempting to start.
no real complaint ( 225.000 on the clock)

The cam seem to be broke in that the belt is still round the sprocket ( but with cover prized back ) it wobbles about.

I tried the starter 3 times and initially though it was the starter motor come lose and the noise came from that.

Would I have bent the valves or done any other damage ?
Probably in total 4 , 5 second bursts .

New prices frighten me so,
If I fit a second hand cam do I need brand new followers ?

I have other engines in identical cars and am inclined to pull one of those and take the opportunity of fitting a new clutch at the same time .

All thoughts/ advise/ experience most welcomed.

Post by **CitroJim** » 16 Feb 2011, 15:48

On a 16V Patrick, there will have been severe valve damage if the belt has gone.

I'm not at all clear as to what's happened. The cam is broken you say but is this from looking at the cam or from observing movement on its drive sprocket? You say it wobbles about. What wobbles? The sprocket? Don't forget these are vernier sprockets and the adjustment may have come loose, allowing the outer to become loose with respect to the inner.

These have two camshafts. Have both suffered?

The only way to find out what's happened is to have the lid off the cambox and to remove the belt covers and then check timing.

If the worst has happened than you can consider the engine a writeoff. Best to source a spare one from a breaker and swap them...

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 16 Feb 2011, 19:11

as Jim says get the belt covers off and try setting/peging the timming up,

and Jim looks like Patric has his own breakers, so if the worst has happend just swap the hole lump,

regards malcolm

bxman · Post by **bxman** » 16 Feb 2011, 19:36

Thanks malcolm and Jim
the belt appears to be intact It is the sprocket that wobbles only the inlet cam affected the belt still has drive.
The front cam does not rotate as viewed through the oil filler cap. When rocking the engine back and forth in gear

Plenty of "graunching" noise from that area as well.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 17 Feb 2011, 08:02

you need to follow the first advise then get back to us,

cam and belt covers then set cam timming, even though the belt looks ok it can still have jumped some teeth,

regards malcolm

Post by **CitroJim** » 18 Feb 2011, 06:49

citronut wrote: even though the belt looks ok it can still have jumped some teeth,

Yes, or the vernier has come loose...

bxman · Post by **bxman** » 18 Feb 2011, 22:06

update

The cam itself is untouched It was the sprocket that sheered it's 3 spokes
the belt was unmarked likewise the cam have fitted replacement end spigot (which got a bit chewed up) to cam and a fresh sprocket but sadly it has yet to spring to life.

It might be getting a good tow up the road in the morning.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 19 Feb 2011, 11:40

i would check the cam timming,

if the engine has been cranked over with a broken cam sprocket, you will have almost certaily ben valves on that bank,

if you dont check it out in depth you might do more damage,

valve clearance's, belt timming, compresion test,

not necerceraly in that order,

regards malcolm

bxman · Post by **bxman** » 19 Feb 2011, 21:56

cheers malcom
Not a scrap of compression on any cylinder It looks as though all 8 inlet valves are bent, or at least one in every pot.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 19 Feb 2011, 22:13

its almost a dead cert, because on 16v's the valves come in at about 60Deg to the piston crown it only takes the slightest contact to bend them, that and the valves are tiny and not very strong.

Seem strange the pulley broke, was there nothing that jammed the camshaft which resulted in the pulley breaking? not that it matters now as its a head off job if there is no compression.

D

addo · Post by **addo** » 19 Feb 2011, 22:17

As they open in unison, cylinder pairs will be bent. It's easy to find 8V replacement valves, but 16V valves may be specialised aftermarket or dealer parts (maybe 12-13 squid times eight). Specific LPG/petrol engine valves are much dearer.

Your cam and hydraulic followers should be fine.

Post by **CitroJim** » 20 Feb 2011, 08:05

Oh dear Patrick

That's a shame...

Off with 'er 'ead and see the extent of the damage...

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 20 Feb 2011, 11:33

as long as the second cam continued to rotate in sink with the crank, it will not have bent any valves on that bank,

but i suspect as the one sprocket was doing its own thing it will upset the belt timming,

regards malcolm