C3 HDi Get up and Go got up and went

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 11 Feb 2011, 13:25

Anyone that knows me from the Picasso forum - Hi!

Unfortunately, the replacement for the Picasso is giving us a bit of a headache. Before I impose upon MikeT for his assistance in pulling codes from the ECU, (kudos to Mike for the offer!) I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas about what the problem may be.

Symptoms :
From some time back, the water temp lights have been "iffy", sometimes going straight into the red on a cold engine, sometimes not registering on a warm one, generally only showing up to two lights at a steady state. Car ran fine, though, and was returning 63MPG.
Last week, power started to drop intermittently, but not accompanied by any strange noises, smoke, warning lights. By the end of the week it had settled into a permanently underpowered state. Fuel use appears unaffected, and there are still no warning lights.

Guesses so far :
MAF sensor on the fritz? Permanently reading low so underfuelling? Would this light up a warning?
Air leak between turbo and inlet? My SAAB suffered from a split hose between the intercooler and the manifold - similar symptoms and no EML
EGR valve stuck open?
Injector failure?
Could it in fact be a failed water temp sensor? How would it react?

I don't know which of the above would cause a warning to appear, but I am assured that, apart from the loss of oomph, there is no other sign of a problem.

Yours, Baffled of Hampshire

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 11 Feb 2011, 19:04

Is your C3 a 1.4 8v HDi 70 or a 1.4 16v 90 HDi?

The 16vs are well known for similar issues, smoking etc.

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 11 Feb 2011, 20:16

'Tis a 16V 1.4 of late 2003 vintage, sir.

JamesQB · Post by **JamesQB** » 11 Feb 2011, 21:21

Try removing turbo air intake pipe and spinning the turbo compressor with a finger, to ensure it hasn't seized. Happened to mine.

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 11 Feb 2011, 21:36

Blimey! And that didn't give a warning light??

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 11 Feb 2011, 21:50

nope, the engine doesnt see low/no boost as a fault it will just adjust fueling and cary on. its worth a check for starters just to rule out the worst case really.
MAF or MAP sensors next i would guess, the duff temp sender will probably be guage dedicated and there will be another for the ecu...............if dervs monitor engine temp these days.

D

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 12 Feb 2011, 08:43

I guess a split intercooler has to be another possibility then - are they a known weak point on C3s, or fairly robust?

Have to say I'm hoping for a sensor failure here, especially as it was initially intermittent which doesn't sound as much like a seizure situation.

How do I check if a MAF or MAP is good? I have a multimeter - I'm guessing there are pass/fail electrical values for these.

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 12 Feb 2011, 11:19

Well...inlet duct off, and the turbo seems to be turning by finger pressure, and there doesn't appear to be much play to be felt. Should it spin freely or just turn when twiddled?

Fair amount of oil, but that seems to be coming from the crank breather mainly (and the seal on the breather-to-inlet is leaking...another story I guess) and hopefully not the turbo shaft seals...how would I tell?

Checked air hoses to and from intercooler by feel - no apparent cracks or splits and the jubilee clips are tight.

Anybody know how I can check MAF and MAP are good, in the absence of substitution of a known good one?

Daft thought....Anybody ever know of an air filter giving sudden (rather than gradual) power loss? Must pull that off next!

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 12 Feb 2011, 11:25

Hmmm....a lot of oil on the MAF.....could that be my problem?

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 12 Feb 2011, 13:46

oil could be an issue as i believe the maf heats a wire and then as more air passes over the heated wire it cools and so resistance reduces, if its covered in oil no air will be touching it i would guess.

Turbo sounds fine, is there oil in the boost pipe at the turbo outlet, a little oil is nomal, puddles as you can imagine, arent.

Hopefuly it will be the maf or a big boost leak, those are the prime suspects anyway.

D

Post by **myglaren** » 12 Feb 2011, 17:58

The MAF should be clean! As it is in the fresh air intake behind a filter I have difficulty imagining how it could be fouled by oil.
That would certainly explain problems with power - I am having somewhat similar symptoms but with a different underlying cause.

Get hold of some carburettor cleaner spray, remove the MAF and give it several good dousings over a few hours/overnight. Refit, run the engine with the MAF still disconnected from the air intake but connected to the hose leading to the engine, and spray it again a few times, then reconnect it to the air filter.

Be very careful with it and don't be tempted to poke at it with cotton wool buds or the like, they are very delicate. And expensive!

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 12 Feb 2011, 19:54

Not sure how you could connect the MAF to the engine without it being connected to the filter - the duct is moulded to fit, and not very flexible.

Never mind...did the thorough sploshing with carb cleaner, re-assembled, and it's certainly miles better than it was.

The filter was as clean as a whistle, on both sides, so how the oil is, in effect "flowing uphill" is difficult to work out. My suspicion is that it's misting from the crankcase breather connection after the car is switched off, and then condensing on the MAF as it cools.

If all it needs is a good wash and brush up every so often, with carb-cleaner at £2.35 a can from Toolstation, (a damned sight cheaper than Halfrauds) I can live with that!

wizzer59 · Post by **wizzer59** » 13 Feb 2011, 14:52

You say

it's certainly miles better than it was.

does that mean it's back to normal??

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:36

Difficult to say until I can get it on a fast A-road! My daughter (who has been driving it most recently) says she was having difficulty pulling 40mph up hills.

I managed 53 going up the short hill out of our village before having to back off for traffic, so...let's say I'm hopeful!

CitTone · Post by **CitTone** » 13 Feb 2011, 15:41

By the way, in the short time that we have had the C3, I have encountered the fun and games of headlamp replacement, stereo swapping and broken wheel security bolts. Steep learning curve!