Xsara Picasso HDi not starting.

[Rockley Lock & Safe]

I have a Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 HDi, once it is running it is great, it turns over for a couple of minutes before starting. The first 30 seconds of cranking it is as though it has no fuel or an immobiliser problem, then the car starts shaking and diesel spoke pours out of the exhaust. If i pump the throttle I can usually get it going after a minute or two of cranking.

It is easier to start once the car is warmed up but not perfect.

The glow plugs never seemed to do anything and are doing the same amount of not a lot now, I have powered the glow plugs directly with no noticeable effect, the problem doesn't seem to be affected by the temperature outside.
I have swapped the fuel filter and used "Redex" diesel fuel additive after the filter swap, no difference.

The car had an engine swap around 12 months ago, done at the main dealers who claimed it came out of a van.

I am at my wits end with it now, any advice greatly apreciated.

I am main dealer trained (Audi) with a well stocked garage but I am at a loss as to where to start.

Thanks in advance guys.

Warren

[P616VKX]

I have a Citroën Xsara Picasso 2.0 HDi, once it is running it is great, it turns over for a couple of minutes before starting. The first 30 seconds of cranking it is as though it has no fuel or an immobiliser problem, then the car starts shaking and diesel spoke pours out of the exhaust. If i pump the throttle I can usually get it going after a minute or two of cranking.

It is easier to start once the car is warmed up but not perfect.

The glow plugs never seemed to do anything and are doing the same amount of not a lot now, I have powered the glow plugs directly with no noticeable effect, the problem doesn't seem to be affected by the temperature outside.
I have swapped the fuel filter and used "Redex" diesel fuel additive after the filter swap, no difference.

The car had an engine swap around 12 months ago, done at the main dealers who claimed it came out of a van.

I am at my wits end with it now, any advice greatly apreciated.

I am main dealer trained (Audi) with a well stocked garage but I am at a loss as to where to start.

Thanks in advance guys.

Warren

Hi Warren,

If there was an Immobilisor Fault, the screen on the dash would show "Immobilisor Fault - Workshop"...

Saying that there's black smoke when it does start to fire would also indicate that there isn't a fuelling issue.

It's more than likely the glow plugs. My old HDi never needed them, but so many people do need them, it's not funny.

[Rockley Lock & Safe]

Thanks mate,

The immobiliser is the only bit about these cars I do know something about!

My thought was that the glow plugs weren't working, that the repeated cranking compresses enough air for long enough to raise the temperature enough to start the car.

But from reading on here the glow plugs don't do a lot, and that it happens even when the weather is warm is throwing me a bit.

[Paul-R]

But from reading on here the glow plugs don't do a lot, and that it happens even when the weather is warm is throwing me a bit.

That's correct. the glow plug light on the dash can flash on and off so quickly you can easily miss it. It's not particularly warm at the moment so you should see it come on for a second or two.

My thought was that the glow plugs weren't working, that the repeated cranking compresses enough air for long enough to raise the temperature enough to start the car.

That's also correct. The symptoms you describe remind me very much of starting an old indirect injection diesel without glow plugs. You could do it - eventually - but boy it took a long time.

How did you check the glow plugs? Obviously the first thing is to see if there's a voltage there (briefly!) at start up but then you need to diconnect the power feed and start checking each plug with a meter. They're practically a dead short but showing a high resistance is a sign of of a duff one.

[RichardW]

It's not the glow plugs - they should start no problems without this weather. Did this start suddenly, or develop over a while? Presume the engine light is not on once you do get it running? Can you hear the in-tank pump priming when you turn the ignition on - if not try thumping the underside of the fuel tank while cranking it.

You really need to get it on a Lexia so that you can see what the fuel rail pressure is doing, and also check the cam vs crank timing signal. If that turns up nothing, then I would do a leak off check on the injectors, as one may be cracked preventing pressure build up on the rail. Does it run on at all when the ignition is turned off? This may point to a problem with the fuel pressure regulator.

[Peter.N.]

My 406 Hdi starts instantly even in the recent sub zero temperatures but it does turn over at a rate of knots, is your turning fast enough I ask myself?

Peter

[Rockley Lock & Safe]

The engine turns over at a rapid rate so no problems there,
largely happened all at once,
no engine light on,
doesn't run on,

I will check the in tank pump now.

[Peter.N.]

You should be able to hear it run briefly when you turn the ignition on.

[Rockley Lock & Safe]

Pump kicks in for about 10 secs.

[Peter.N.]

Oh dear, sounds like code reading time.

[P616VKX]

Saying glow plugs don't do anything isn't really true... Starting without them can take considerably longer than with them.

My Mum's old 405 TD would kick up a right fuss if you tried turning the engine without letting the light go out!

If you turn the key, leave it 30-40 seconds or so and then try and start it... The glow plugs work for quite some time after the light goes out. The light goes out to show the engine is ready to start, not that the glow plugs have gone out. It is my understanding that they can stay on for between 2-5 minutes after initially turning the key.

[Deanxm]

Yeah but thats an old TD, Common rail engines dont really need glow plugs at all untill you get down to -5 ish temps and even then its just a second or two.
They certainly wont cause starting problems like this on a HDI.

D

[P616VKX]

Yeah but thats an old TD, Common rail engines dont really need glow plugs at all untill you get down to -5 ish temps and even then its just a second or two.
They certainly wont cause starting problems like this on a HDI.

D

Ahh, Okay. Apolagies for the incorrect info.

[Rockley Lock & Safe]

I am still no closer with this car, does my head in now.

[Paul-R]

You need to get the ECU read.

There are various FCF members with Lexias around the country who are willing to hook up their machine to your car. Have a look here http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=29178 to see if there's anyone close to where the car is.