Xantia - auxillary coolant input / output feeds location?

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 09 Feb 2011, 12:50

Howie,

Ive got nearly 300 litres of waste stacked in my garden but it gets collected by the private Bio-diesel producers on the veggie forum I let them have it for nowt and thay take it away if they give you a waste transfer note (WTN) for it you can offset the wwaste against the fuel you make by filtering the waste out of the oil.

come on even if you had to pay a fiver for a 20 litre drum like I have to it would still work out around 33 pence per litre saving what 99 p a litre after processing, the initial outlay for equipment if your going to do filtering properly is about £175 the equipment will pay for itself in about three months, getting the oil is a bit hurdle but most of us have a printer can get cheap inks at inkreadible.com and print of some flyers/begging letters.
give up one weekend every three months and save yourself an absolute fortune, I was paying nearly 3 grand a year for diesel now I am paying just about £300, I wouldnt say its more hassle than its worth. because I couldnt afford to run my car without it and it would have to go.

regards Nigel.

romie · Post by **romie** » 09 Feb 2011, 13:08

Ha, yeah especially from the last lot of oil I just collected that was actually making me gagg quite badly - was going to hurl until I put a rag round my mouth/nose covered in petrol to be able to finish the job :s

Really yuk.

But I can see the long term benefits 'thinking of converting a domestic oil burning central heating burner to veg next and bunging it in parallel with my current one.. CO2 neutral all the way!! hahah.

Looking at this site is very helpful on giving a guide to what's out there equipment wise

http://www.dieselveg.com/products.htm

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 09 Feb 2011, 13:14

romie wrote:Ha, yeah especially from the last lot of oil I just collected that was actually making me gagg quite badly - was going to hurl until I put a rag round my mouth/nose covered in petrol to be able to finish the job :s

Really yuk.

But I can see the long term benefits 'thinking of converting a domestic oil burning central heating burner to veg next and bunging it in parallel with my current one.. CO2 neutral all the way!! hahah.

Looking at this site is very helpful on giving a guide to what's out there equipment wise
http://www.dieselveg.com/products.htm

Where I get my bio diesel from now, they collect their WVO from people they know whilst doing their deliveries. I remember them saying they will only collect good oil and non of the nasty stuff your describing. lol.

Nige, they have to purchase the oil now as so many people want to collect it. I'm paying between 85 - 90 pence per litre fro bio diesel, which is not bad. Its only for regulars now that demand is high. I think they make more money selling bio diesel production materials.

Regards,

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 09 Feb 2011, 18:24

romie,

have you tried heating that nasty stuff in the tins if it is in tins then letting it settle for 24 hours it sometimes helps to kill the bacteria that makes it stink. a soaked rag in petrol over your nose and mouth could kill you, it has been known to kill people before a cheapy hit for glue sniffers in the 80's. a wet rag soaked in water will work just as well and you can ave a fag without blowing your head off.

Howie,

yes there is a lot of competition us private collectors are paying a fiver for 20 litres the big companies cant afford to do that they usually allow £2 a 20litre drum and supposidly take that off the price of the new oil they supply, its a bit of a rip off really because they just raise the price of the new 20 litre tins of oil by 2 quid which they have done fairly recently.
the big companies lie to establishments and say dont give/sell your oil to anyone unless they carry a waste cariers license but we dont need a waste cariers license we are exempt becaue we are private collectors not a bussiness, competition is tough that is why your Bio-diesel is made for such a low price if the price of waste oil goes up and establishments demand higher prices the price of new oil will go up, I think waste oil is currently at around £350 a ton on the open market, you just need to look at flea-bay to see how expensive it is getting, the cost of waste drives ther cost of new as well as the cost of bio-diesel.

cheers Nigel.

romie · Post by **romie** » 09 Feb 2011, 20:22

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:. . the big companies lie to establishments and say dont give/sell your oil to anyone unless they carry a waste cariers license but we dont need a waste cariers license ...

Interesting, I've been asked a couple of times for a disposal certificate and I was wondering if this is actually a legal thing.

I was asked a few years ago from a garage for an engine oil disposal certificate when I was asking for their old used engine oil. - er, UEO? :p

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 09 Feb 2011, 22:01

Had a quick look on ebay for fuel heaters, just browsing and came across this little beauty.

That is an oil filter he's got it wrapped around isn't it?

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 09 Feb 2011, 22:35

romie wrote:
falling-out-with-my-car wrote:. . the big companies lie to establishments and say dont give/sell your oil to anyone unless they carry a waste cariers license but we dont need a waste cariers license ...
Interesting, I've been asked a couple of times for a disposal certificate and I was wondering if this is actually a legal thing.

I was asked a few years ago from a garage for an engine oil disposal certificate when I was asking for their old used engine oil. - er, UEO? :p

romie, you really ought to take a look at www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum
they have been mucking around on this site with veg oil in their cars for years, no question is to daft for them over there, otherwise I would have been kicked out ages ago

you will need a WTN (Waste transfer note) displaying the relevent codes I think the above site has some to print out just ask in general discussion for waste transfer notes for veg oil and somebody will point them to you, save it to your docs and print out when you need them, I have them already filled out as word docs with the establishment name and addresses on them a shortcut on the desktop to get to the folder so it is easy to open the folder quickly and print off the correct one for the correct collection. you will need to have a copy yourself and they must be kept on file by you and the establishment for 2 years that is the law.

if the enviroment agency do a visit to a supplier they may ask for the WTNs the supplier has to prove that they have disposed of their waste correctly and produces your WTN's for inspection if you keepa copy at home it can also help to get the supplier out of a sticky situation if they loose their copy and the enviroment agency demand to see them.

you might also need an enviroment agency exemption letter like I have to proove to the suppliers that you do not need a waste transfer license to transport the waste oil for private use. I telephoned the enviroment agency and asked them to confirm this in writing and they took my details and sent me a very nice letter which I always carry with me in the form of a copy.

Xac, yes nice looking little heater there has been a lot of debate on the veggy forum wether or not these oil filter heaters are effective enough at least you wouldnt have the hassles of the pump pulling thick cold veg through small HE plates. personally I have tried this sort of approach and found that the FPHE was much more effective than a heated filter which the xantia already has an an OEM fitting, there is a good modification for the oem xantia fuel heater which as you know is in the bottom of the fuel filter housing which makes all of the veg oil pass through the HE beneath the filter housing apparently the oem filter housing has a bypass that once the filter reaches optimum temperature it allows cold veg to pass through the filter bypassing the OEM heat exchanger, not so good for the pump unfortunately. the modification by Rotary Motion on the veggy site closes off the bypass and the HE in the bottom of the filter housing heats all of the oil not just some of it easing the strain on the pump.

actually I dont know why I didnt mention this earlier Romie could at least try the Mod first saving himself a few quid before launching himself into the world of FPHE's

best wishes Nigel.

romie · Post by **romie** » 09 Feb 2011, 23:36

Xac wrote:Had a quick look on ebay for fuel heaters, just browsing and came across this little beauty.
That is an oil filter he's got it wrapped around isn't it?

HA! I was actually just looking at that a moment ago!! It was quite strange to see the exact same thing pop up here so quickly :p

Might be useful for injector heaters? Could wrap the whole damn IP in it and run it the full length of the oil lines xD

I was just thinking... I'm trying to remember the fittings but the 1996 Xantia 1.9TD Bosch injector pump DOES return unused diesel back to the fuel tank yes? And not just cycle it back round to itself?

I'm just thinking how many 3-port/6-port valves I need?

Hey Nigel, yes I have been talking on that site as well. It's interesting on the converging ideas everyone has. I try to put more vehicle related posts here but the subjects tend to get merged :s
Thanks for clarifying the certificate situation.

I'm passed the half way point now. Got most of the bits ordered to start experimenting in a weeks time - yayy

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 10 Feb 2011, 00:43

I've been thinking about the stat in the filter housing and how it works.
It passes fuel through the HE which in turn helps heat the filter housing.
The housing heats up and reaches a saturated temperature which is able to heat the fresh "cold" to a temperature above the switching temp of the stat.
The heat from the HE against the base of the filter housing is enough to keep the fuel about the switching temp, and if it does drop then the stat just re-opens and directly heats the fuel again.

Say the stat is set to switch at 70C, then while the coolant is getting up to 70C the stat is going to be open letting fuel through the HE.
Eventually the coolant gets up to the normal running temperature and the fuel gets up to 70C so closes letting fuel flow directly into the hot filter housing which heats it.
If the energy from HE to the housing is greater than or equal to the energy needed to raise the fresh fuel to 70C (remember it's been heated somewhat by hot oil returning from the hot fuel pump to the tank too), then the stat doesn't need to open, where as if it takes more energy to raise the fresh fuel temperature up to 70C than is being transferred by the HE to the housing, then the fuel temperature will cause the stat to re-open to give direct heating again.

So if you force the stat open so that fuel always flows through the maze that is the HE, then I can't see it heating the fuel any more than normal but it will restrict the flow a bit compared with a closed stat allowing the flow straight into the filter housing.

What do you reckon?
It's been a long day and my brain is a bit addled, but it seems to make sense to me.

I can understand why it may appear to make sense to always run fuel through the under filter HE, it's a heat source and if you apply a heat source for longer things get hotter right?
Except, as with rivers, you never heat the same fuel stream twice

Romie, the pump does indeed send hot fuel back to the tank, the pump also heats the fuel up to temperature as soon as it hits the hot pump.
The restrictions caused by cold oil is in pulling it through the fuel lines, the HE, and the fuel filter.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 10 Feb 2011, 09:50

yes Xac, I see what you mean.

regards Nigel.

romie · Post by **romie** » 10 Feb 2011, 11:25

Xac wrote:I've been thinking about the stat in the filter housing...

I like your thoughts on that stat mod. You're going to get me pondering that one now! :/

Thanks for the fast response on the fuel return question.
I've just ordered the two separate 3 port valves, (to enable purging) last night. £69!! - eep Bs

I'm going to try out the Facet pump at the cold wvo tank to help push the oil to the HE.

How about much larger bore fuel lines from the cold wvo tank to the HE?. . that might help matters.

Might end up running hot coolant lines along the fuel hoses to the wvo tank in the end :s . . and then I might as well heat the wvo tank as well! ha.