XM no drive problem - please help!

macspite · Post by **macspite** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:02

I picked up my ebay purchase yesterday, a 93 XM estate with a manual gearbox and no drive.

The previous owner had fitted a new clutch cable and "CLUTCH STILL FEELS FINE BUT NO GEARS SELECTING SO CLUTCH DEFINATELY NEEDS LOOKING AT [HAYNES MANUAL INCLUDED] GOOD NEWS IS APPARENTLY ITS NOT AN ENGINE OUT JOB." (His caps)

In the Q and A section of the listing - Q: What happens when you try to engage gears?
A: Well it's weird, with the engine running, foot off the clutch you can slot into every gear, no grinding or resistance at all. Put your foot on the clutch, feels lovely but no effect.

and

Q: can you tell me if the problem with the clutch just happened suddenly or did it gradually deteriorate?
A: it was sudden, a very gentle "thud" and no drive, prior to that lovely clutcn, no noisy gears no popping out of gear

I got it on a trailer yesterday and brought it back from Ipswich - top tip, don't take a left hand drive vehicle through the Dartford Crossing tollbooths - and had a quick play today.

The clutch does feel as if it is connected, the gears do feel if the cables are doing their job and can be selected with the engine running and without using the clutch.

The big clue is that if I select a gear the speedo needle moves and, if revs are increased from idle the needle moves up the scale. Each gear can be selected without hassle, the speedo needle with the engine idling shows increasing speed as the gears are shifted from 1st to 2nd to 3rd and up.

There is a small amount of vibration if I hold the lever but no hint of the car wanting to move.

What do you reckon it is?

Post by **CitroJim** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:12

Sounds like one or the other of the driveshafts has stripped splines at the gearbox end. Or, the diff has stripped splines. This would be consistent with the speedo working when taking up drive...

The MA gearbox as fitted to saxos and so on has a fault where the crownwheel comes loose on the diff but if this was the fault the speedo would not move.

I've heard of this happening on the 4HP20 autobox...

Have the driveshafts out and inspect them. If there are stripped splines then assume the diff is damaged.

What engine is in the XM? Most will allow the gearbox out without lifting the engine. Not sure about the 2.5 Diesel though...

macspite · Post by **macspite** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:25

Hi Jim, thanks for the very speedy reply! It's the 2.1 diesel, seems to be a fair amount to remove to get a gearbox but, from what I have read should just about be possible to get it out without engine removal. Problem I have is that I tend to work on my own so need to devise means of doing things that should normally take two people.

Tips for driveshaft removal would be a great help, will search Forum for postings.

Thanks for your help, Rob

Pleiades · Post by **Pleiades** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:26

Just a quick thought,

I fear it will be a mechanical problem with the clutch itself, most likely a cheap and cheerfull clutch fitted by one of the big clutch fitting guys,

Before you strip it all out, pull the driveshafts (they have to come out anyway) and check them, I had this problem once and it was a shattered CV joint. No drive to one wheel means no drive to either.

Regards.
Martin.

Pleiades · Post by **Pleiades** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:30

Jim Types much quicker than I do,

Also I have had the crownwheel problem on my sons first car, put it down to 17 year old race drivers.

Regards
Martin.

CGATCX25GTITURBO · Post by **CGATCX25GTITURBO** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:30

I have seen a mangled circlip give up so the shaft just popped out of the cv, new clip and all was well

CGATCX25GTITURBO · Post by **CGATCX25GTITURBO** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:33

Pleiades wrote:Jim Types much quicker than I do,

Also I have had the crownwheel problem on my sons first car, put it down to 17 year old race drivers.

Regards
Martin.

20 y/o doing j turns in v8 Rover and smashed the diff

macspite · Post by **macspite** » 30 Jan 2011, 21:56

Thanks for all the very speedy replies. This seems to be a great forum for help and information!

Driveshaft check coming up but unfortunately I have to work for the next ten or so days and there is no light in my barn .

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Jan 2011, 00:17

Before you do a lot of work on it check the o/s drive shaft centre bearing, this can disintegrate with little fuss and allows the driveshaft to slide out of the diff, giving no drive - guess how I know?

Peter

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 31 Jan 2011, 08:23

a striped or damaged drive shaft /diff will not cause the dropping in and out of gears with the engine running and clutch released,

so i think its got to be something holding the clutch in the disengadged state,

??? thrust bearing not seated fully or as Martin says a cheap and chearfull or even re/con clutch kit was fitted,

regards malcolm

Post by **RichardW** » 31 Jan 2011, 08:26

Hmm, the fact that you are getting a speedo reading suggests that the output side of the RH shaft is going round. So either the shaft has come out as per Peter (but in this case there should have been a gear box oil leak) or the RH shaft has shed its CV joint. The later is an easy check - with the engine running and in gear(*) check whether the RH shaft is rotating.

* I would do this with the front raised off the ground, just in case it decides to engage the drive....

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 31 Jan 2011, 11:15

citronut wrote:a striped or damaged drive shaft /diff will not cause the dropping in and out of gears with the engine running and clutch released,

so i think its got to be something holding the clutch in the disengadged state,

??? thrust bearing not seated fully or as Martin says a cheap and chearfull or even re/con clutch kit was fitted,

regards malcolm

Clutch HAS to be engaging because the speedo IS working... My bet is ALSO a Drive shaft...

Macspite, you may ALSO want to join THIS XM Fourm

Theres a few of us from here on there aswell, but its more dedicated to XM's

A 2.1 manual.... thats rare - ish.. however, if you find its an inner shaft problem I May be able to help you, Ive a few shafts here, with things like torn CV boots etc, but perfectly serviceable...

From the sound of a sudden CLUNK - or thud - whatever, something has sheared..

Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 31 Jan 2011, 13:46

i agree with that Paul but why is he able to select all gears with engine running without pressing the clutch pedel down, as well as the lack of drive,

or thats the way i read it anyhow,

regards malcolm

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Jan 2011, 14:31

If it is failure of the centre bearing you should be able to just slide the driveshaft back into the diff as a temporary measure.

Peter

macspite · Post by **macspite** » 31 Jan 2011, 19:12

Thanks guys, another crop of well thought out and helpful replies. Car is at the moment facing forward in an openfronted barn so could possibly take the risk of suddenly moving forward but as I am currently trying to get involved in Health and Safety implementation at work I think I better be sensible ...

Will jack the car up on the hydraulics and drop it onto a couple of stout timbers to allow the front wheels to be free of the ground, engage a gear with the engine running and see what moves and what doesn't. Problem is that there is no light on the barn so it needs to be done in daylight and, after a few weeks of little work things have now gone ballistic.

And thank you for the offer of driveshafts, if it turns out to be a shaft I will definitely be in contact. I'm on the south coast by the way but work takes me around the South East and East Anglia so I can sometimes make a pickup while being paid fpor mileage!

And I will definitely see some of you in the XM place

Best regards and thanks for all the help, Rob