XM and another thing ......
Steering gone very heavy... well for power stering.
Anything I shoul look at ?
Steve
steering
Moderator: RichardW
Steve -
Your L-reg ('95 ?) XM2.0 should have the BX-type PAS servosteering. This involves the 1-port HP pump & the dodgy flow divider (FD) control valve.
The FD is prone to fail because of 2 small cup filters in pipe ports - bursting into tiny nylon bits upsetting the FD's valves function.
This problem is so wellknown - that rep kits are available for overhauling the FD : (Citroen part #) 95 669 034
The HP pump should also be suspect for low ouput pressure.
Since the later XM & Xantia had the 2-port HP pump fitted - no FD - from '95 models - your XM could have this system fitted.
Then the pump is the most likely problem.
Check the obvious : the pump drive belt MUST be incredible tight - and the belt may be worn such that it rides on the bottom of the V-wheels making it slip.
Your L-reg ('95 ?) XM2.0 should have the BX-type PAS servosteering. This involves the 1-port HP pump & the dodgy flow divider (FD) control valve.
The FD is prone to fail because of 2 small cup filters in pipe ports - bursting into tiny nylon bits upsetting the FD's valves function.
This problem is so wellknown - that rep kits are available for overhauling the FD : (Citroen part #) 95 669 034
The HP pump should also be suspect for low ouput pressure.
Since the later XM & Xantia had the 2-port HP pump fitted - no FD - from '95 models - your XM could have this system fitted.
Then the pump is the most likely problem.
Check the obvious : the pump drive belt MUST be incredible tight - and the belt may be worn such that it rides on the bottom of the V-wheels making it slip.
[:D]Well what a forum... Fantastic.... No sooner asked than answered
Right then.. Tighned up the pump belt... Took the filters out of the reservoir.... Both caked in black stuff.. Washed out with petrol.
Pump has one big low presure pipe and one small high presure.
Does this mean that my 'L' 1993 XM has the old system.
I,ve change the accumulator (Just turned it by hand, with a pair of rubber gloves, and off it came !!)
Goes up and down much quicker and the pump is not cutting in every few seconds now but, pump does see to be coming on more than it should. Back of the car solid... So I guess those are due for a change. I'll test the steering on my way to work tomorow and see if it any lighter.
Thanks for the quick responce... I thought i knew about cars until I discovered XM,s
Steve
Right then.. Tighned up the pump belt... Took the filters out of the reservoir.... Both caked in black stuff.. Washed out with petrol.
Pump has one big low presure pipe and one small high presure.
Does this mean that my 'L' 1993 XM has the old system.
I,ve change the accumulator (Just turned it by hand, with a pair of rubber gloves, and off it came !!)
Goes up and down much quicker and the pump is not cutting in every few seconds now but, pump does see to be coming on more than it should. Back of the car solid... So I guess those are due for a change. I'll test the steering on my way to work tomorow and see if it any lighter.
Thanks for the quick responce... I thought i knew about cars until I discovered XM,s
Steve
Being overseas -
I'm not used to the UK alphabetic yearmodel reg system.
It was a long shot from the cover of a Haynes manual [:D][:D][:D]
Your '93 XM would definately have the old system.
Anyway - previous owner could have had it modified - best method recognising then - is the 1 or 2 pressure pipe(s) running from the pump.
I'm glad you checked your reservoir filter - althogh it was not that filter I referred to [:I][:o)]
While you are at the reservoir - give your poor XM a hydracleanse cure - it seems WELL worth it [:D]
The filters I actually referred to - are in NO way accessible for cleaning - a real design flaw. You need to remove the FD and overhaul it - to get access to these filters.
Anyway - it seems clear you have found the cause to the problem - now secure this work by a hydracleanse cure - and I'm sure you'll then have a longterm wellworking XM [^]
I'm not used to the UK alphabetic yearmodel reg system.
It was a long shot from the cover of a Haynes manual [:D][:D][:D]
Your '93 XM would definately have the old system.
Anyway - previous owner could have had it modified - best method recognising then - is the 1 or 2 pressure pipe(s) running from the pump.
I'm glad you checked your reservoir filter - althogh it was not that filter I referred to [:I][:o)]
While you are at the reservoir - give your poor XM a hydracleanse cure - it seems WELL worth it [:D]
The filters I actually referred to - are in NO way accessible for cleaning - a real design flaw. You need to remove the FD and overhaul it - to get access to these filters.
Anyway - it seems clear you have found the cause to the problem - now secure this work by a hydracleanse cure - and I'm sure you'll then have a longterm wellworking XM [^]
Well I got to work OK after fitting the new accumulator on Friday
This afternoon on my return from work I lost all fluid.
On checking the Accumulator it seems that the seal has broken.
The accumulator was tightened by hand and I can only assume that the seal was faulty. It was a new seal that came with the accumulator
Your comments please.
I will now need a new seal and a enough fluid to fill the whole system.
I had just replaced all the fluid so not feeling too happy at the moment !
Am I right to just tighten it by hand or should I have used a tool to get it tighter ?
Steve
This afternoon on my return from work I lost all fluid.
On checking the Accumulator it seems that the seal has broken.
The accumulator was tightened by hand and I can only assume that the seal was faulty. It was a new seal that came with the accumulator
Your comments please.
I will now need a new seal and a enough fluid to fill the whole system.
I had just replaced all the fluid so not feeling too happy at the moment !
Am I right to just tighten it by hand or should I have used a tool to get it tighter ?
Steve
You did allright by only handtighten the sphere -
The threading & seal ensures more than adequate sealing torque using your hands.
Exactly like firming up an oil filter can.
In fact there is a risc that the seal WILL twist using higher torque.
The seal can be a teaser to seat correctly - it's not uncommon with a pressure dump because of a twisted seal.
Did you in fact wet the seal in LHM before fitting ?
It should never be fitted dry - you may perfectly use a smear of standard grease to really ensure the seal won't be twisted by nipping up the sphere.
The threading & seal ensures more than adequate sealing torque using your hands.
Exactly like firming up an oil filter can.
In fact there is a risc that the seal WILL twist using higher torque.
The seal can be a teaser to seat correctly - it's not uncommon with a pressure dump because of a twisted seal.
Did you in fact wet the seal in LHM before fitting ?
It should never be fitted dry - you may perfectly use a smear of standard grease to really ensure the seal won't be twisted by nipping up the sphere.
thecats,
Presumably by seal, you mean the rubber o-ring, square insection, at the neck of the sphere where it screws into the regulator?
Sorry to ask the obvious but did you remove the old one? Did you end up with two o-rings fitted? The sphere's are tightened sufficiently by hand, no tools are necessary. The design of the o-ring and the recess into which it fits does not rely on thread tightness for its seal. Was the accumulator sphere slack when you got it home? It is very important that the o-ring stays in its recess while you tighten the sphere. It is sometimes possible for it to jump out of the recess when trying to locate the neck of the sphere in the threaded hole.
You'll need about 5 litres of fluid if you lost every last drop, less if there was anything left in the system.
cheers
noz
Presumably by seal, you mean the rubber o-ring, square insection, at the neck of the sphere where it screws into the regulator?
Sorry to ask the obvious but did you remove the old one? Did you end up with two o-rings fitted? The sphere's are tightened sufficiently by hand, no tools are necessary. The design of the o-ring and the recess into which it fits does not rely on thread tightness for its seal. Was the accumulator sphere slack when you got it home? It is very important that the o-ring stays in its recess while you tighten the sphere. It is sometimes possible for it to jump out of the recess when trying to locate the neck of the sphere in the threaded hole.
You'll need about 5 litres of fluid if you lost every last drop, less if there was anything left in the system.
cheers
noz
-
Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
- x 2
As tight as you can get it with your hands is enough, BUT the sphere MUST be screwed down untill its neck bottoms against the regulator, otherwise the working pressure of 2500 psi will simply blow it through any gap that you leave.
It is not good enough nor correct to simply screw in down onto the rubber seal, the same goes for the suspension cylinders.
Dave
It is not good enough nor correct to simply screw in down onto the rubber seal, the same goes for the suspension cylinders.
Dave
Yes I do mean the square cut o ring. It was still tight when I undid it this evening. The seal had broken, but it does look like it had been pinched at the edge. Would it be better to take the whole lot off then screw the sphere to the unit and put the lot back again. Thats the way I read it in haynes. But I thought I would just try and turn it and it spun off. so I just cleaned the face, took the old seal off, put the new one on and srewed the new sphere on. I did use some grease and then (with the aid of some rubber gloves to get a good grip) I screwed it up (in more ways than one, by the look of things)
What did I do wrong ??
Steve
What did I do wrong ??
Steve
-
Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
- x 2
Steve -
I think you simply missed your luck -
From your description it's the same procedure I use - and admittently I DID miss my luck too on one occasion y's back. Can't remeber if it was the acc or a wheel sphere though. But I've replaced numerous spheres since w/ no prob's.
To my best - you've been hit by Murphy's law [:I]
Try have the seal located on the sphere - then carefull insure the seal seats correctly - by pushing it down into the recess with some tool - while the sphere is just nipped on as a locator guide.
I think you simply missed your luck -
From your description it's the same procedure I use - and admittently I DID miss my luck too on one occasion y's back. Can't remeber if it was the acc or a wheel sphere though. But I've replaced numerous spheres since w/ no prob's.
To my best - you've been hit by Murphy's law [:I]
Try have the seal located on the sphere - then carefull insure the seal seats correctly - by pushing it down into the recess with some tool - while the sphere is just nipped on as a locator guide.
Having just replaced 5 spheres on the BX, I found that it was difficult to reliably get the threads started without dislodging the 'O' ring, especially with the accumulator wedged up behind the the front longitudinal member and the tight fit of the seal around the neck of the canister.
I found the simplest solution was to clean out any LHM in the groove and then use some pretty thick (motorcycle chain lube in my case) grease to 'stick' the seal into position. It made it much more resistant to being snagged.
Hope that helps.
I found the simplest solution was to clean out any LHM in the groove and then use some pretty thick (motorcycle chain lube in my case) grease to 'stick' the seal into position. It made it much more resistant to being snagged.
Hope that helps.
This time they sent me a round section "O" ring. This went on much easier and.....So far..... no leaks.
Thanks for all your help
Steve
By the way Autospares did the spheres for me and although it was not there fault the seal was faulty. They supplied a new seal and will credit my acount for the 5l of fluid. I,ll use them again.
Thanks for all your help
Steve
By the way Autospares did the spheres for me and although it was not there fault the seal was faulty. They supplied a new seal and will credit my acount for the 5l of fluid. I,ll use them again.
Hi Steve. Whats the mileage of your xm? if it has covered over 100,000 miles and still has the original HP pump, thats the problem with the stiff steering. My Xantia had a similar problem. The HP pump provides all the pressure for the suspension and steering, but, the pressure for the steering is direct from the pump where as the pressure for the suspension is via a resevoir that is pressured via the HP pump but not directly from the pump. So, that means the suspension will be slow at rising up and steering be very hard. The HP pump will be tired and only a replacement will sort it out. This is only a 45 min job to replace. Best wishes
Paul.
PS Shop around as the prices vary by tens of pounds.
Paul.
PS Shop around as the prices vary by tens of pounds.