Best diesel engine in the C5 range

[bencowell]

Yes, of the series 1 C5's, the 2.0 HDI 110 (8 valve) is the best engine. No questions.

In the facelifted C5, the very rare 2.2 HDI 173 is amazing (I've done 30+k in mine and smile every drive!) but the 2.0 HDI 136 is a reliable engine and don't seem to give many problems.

My advice to everyone who can afford it is to search out the 2.2 173 even if it is the other side of the country!

Ben

[KennyW]

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the advice.

Anybody out there had Mk1 C5 2.0 HDi 90hp chipped or altered to increase power

Is it worth it.

As an aside had the insurance on the phone and I have been offered £900 for my Xantia which is above my estimate. Their reasons were even with mileage and age car was still in very good condition and had been well maintained.

Just waiting on the money coming through.

Kenny

[daviemck2006]

My 2.2hdi had 58k on clock when I bought it 3yrs ago, within 2k needed particulate filter cleaned, a turbo sensor changed and the emissions fluid filled up, all done at a main dealer at a whopping cost of £650. Got the car cheap on e-bay but that negated the saving, and I thought I had made a huge mistake. However since then it has had nothing apart from tyres, brake pads and a battery and cambelt last month at a small independant garage. Now done 100k, never lets me down and averages 45mpg. Have driven a 2.0 a few months older on a 52 plate and couldn't tell much difference in the driving. I love my 2.2 and deliberatly got one for the torque for towing.Best car I have ever had, and I have had a few! Usually only keep a car 1year, so this one has changed me.

[Citroenmad]

For reliability, durability and ease of ownership the 2.0HDi 8v 110bhp, without question!

Dont bother with the 90BHP, why would you? It only came in the LX spec so its not that popular. I know someone who has one and while ive not driven it he says it is slow, but he loves the car.

The 110 has enough performance for most people, though you do get slower and faster ones, it performs well and returns good economy. OUr 52reg C5 2.0HDi 110 SX is a brilliant car, its now done 128K miles (Still running in for one of these), the engine is a sweet as when it was new, never uses any oil, in fact the oil stays very clean. We had the same model and year in an estate C5, that had done 108K when we sold it and it was running well, though noticably slower than the hatch - not just due to its slight heavier curb weight im sure.

My 2.0HDi 110 VTR is the nippiest 110 ive driven, again the engine has been faultless, its very refined, very economical for a large car and provides reasonable performance, even when heavily loaded.

The 1.6HDi 110 isnt a problematic engine, the two later 16v engines (1.6 110 and 2.0 138) are pretty good and very refined. Ive heard mixed reports of the 1.6, some say it performs well in the C5 and others say its a bit slow. Its the same power as the 2.0 8v 110 but has a bit less torque. Id like to try this engine in a C5, ive driven a few C4s with it and it was fine, but not quick.

The 2.0HDi 138 16v is great, gives the same MPG, if not a little better, than the 2.0 8v 110, its very refined and pulls extremely well, noticeably more brisk than the 8v 110. Our 05 reg C5 estate has this engine and its great, its not been any problems in the time we have had it. The 6 speed box is very nice, makes it an even more refined cruiser, as its so highly geared. This would be my ideal choice if i get a MKII C5.

I keep thinking and I currently am thinking of changing to a facelifted C5 HDi. While the 2.2 173bhp would be nice, finding one isnt easy, they rarely go for much of a premium over the 2.0HDi, so its not a factor of affording one, its finding a good one and being overly bothered about the extra pace.

The appealing thing about the 2.2 173 for me is its VTX+ spec, which has colour screen sat nav, 6 disc cd changer and voice recognition. This is also available in the 1.6HDi 110, which ive considered, but i need to try one, and i really dont want anything with a lesser engine than what i have now. So i think ill probably go for a 2.0 138 HDi in VTR spec. Finding a C5 within 100 miles of hear which appeals is proving difficult, i might have to travel further. Id consider a 2.2 173 though.

S1 C5s were available from launch in LX (manual AC, electric front windows, stel wheels, available in 90 & 110 2.0HDi 8v) SX (Dual Zone Climate, 15" alloy wheels, 4 electric windows, trip computer with larger LCD display, auto lights and wipers) and Exclusive (As SX but with a worse interior - some funny looking suede like material - and a few extra goodies. However, Leather was optional and spec otherwise is pretty much as the SX - available with 2.0HDi 110 - rare to find in the Exclusive, 2.2HDi 136 manual and auto - lots of autos around) There was also a rare Exclusive SE, which had the 2.2HDi, and all of the options, leathers, H/L washers, sat nav etc. Though its a hard one to find and you have to have the 2.2 136.

So in earlier spec the 2.0HDi 110 8v SX C5 would, and oddly enough was, my choice!

Around 03 in year they started to think about the MKII or facelift C5, they gave the Exclusive larger 16" alloy wheels, and at the same time replaced the SX trim with the VTR model. Earlier VTR models had manual air conditioning, however from late 53reg they all got Dual ZOne climate control, VTR Hatchbacks also gained a rear wiper (very handy!), an interior alarm, 16" alloy wheels as Exclusive, and a VTR specific interior trim which has subtle blue seats, dash trims, door trims and seat belts - its actually quite nice. The rest of the spec is as SX, with auto lights and wipers, etc.

In the later S1 form this is the one to go for, the VTR, the larger wheels and improved suspension (its firmer than the earlier cars, but still rides as well, just more taught to drive) makes it drive much better and look better, as 15" wheels on a C5 makes it look under-wheel'd. The VTR is a popular one.

Only exclusive specs came with Cruise Control, however this is easy to fit and well worth while. Both my VTR and SX C5s have it fitted. The 05 reg, being a MKII, has it as standard.

If your thinking of a facelifted C5, its:

-LX single zone climate control, 16" steel wheels, black exterior bumper trims, electric windows,
-Design a special edition but this Design spec with the 1.6HDi 110 engine does NOT have a FAP filter, every other 1.6HDi does, Its as LX spec but with 16" alloy wheels.
-VTR, the most popular spec it would seem, it has dual zone climate contro, cruise control, auto lights and wipers, alarm, lumbar adjust on front seats (instead of front armrests which S1 SX and VTRs have), 16" alloys
-VTX+, As VTR but with large colour screen satnav, voice recognition, and 6disc autochanger - available with 1.6 HDi or 2.2 17 3HDi
- Exclusive, a range topper with parking pack (electric folding mirrors, parking sensors front and rear), directional turning Xenon headlamps with washers, laminated side windows, 6 disc changer. This spec does not have leather or satnav, that is optional.

Oddly enough, i was in Richmond earlier today, there was 4 C5s parked within 200 yards of each other, one was mine. The other three were 2 S1 Exclusives with every option, including leather seats and one facelifted C5 Exclusive with optional leather seats. Never before have i seen so many range topping C5s all together, my VTR looked like the poverty spec!

As much as a range topper sounds tempting, the turning Xenons, folding mirrors etc, its not necessary and could add to maintenance costs in the future. Ive not priced a C5s directional headlamp, but i know that a Vectras headlamp with directional Xenons is £800 each! Scary!

Wow, a lot of spec info there, the fact that i can just write all of that without checking anything is a bit scary and franky sad, though it does show i know my C5s well!

To answer your 90bhp question, yes, you could get it remapped, to give around 115-120 approx. BHP, but i wouldnt recommend it. Its an extra outlay and its still not going to be like a genuine 110 model. The 110 has longer gearing and an intercooler, its more efficient in its standard guise. A 2.0HDi 110 with a remap would be a nice improvement, and with so many 110s to choose from, id not look at a 90bhp version.

Ive had a 90 2.0HDi in a Peugeot 206, it was fine and quite nippy, but thats a tiny car and the C5 isnt, stick with the 110s, there are plenty to choose from.

Any more questions, ask away ....

P.S. i like the fact its snowing on the forum!

[DickieG]

With the 2.2 C5's do the 173bhp ones not suffer the same issues as the 136bhp version? i.e. injectors getting stuck in the head, etc etc.

[Citroenmad]

With the 2.2 C5's do the 173bhp ones not suffer the same issues as the 136bhp version? i.e. injectors getting stuck in the head, etc etc.

I believe its a different block?

Im not sure though, which is why im a little sceptical of getting one of those.

[daviemck2006]

What are all the issues with the 2.2 136, and are they mileage related? As I say my 2.2 has been the model of reliability, but at 100k now getting a bit worried that it is going to start playing up, espically as after a change of circumstances a few months ago I have a 100 mile round trip commute daily.

[Citroenmad]

Almost all 2.2 136 owners experience the 'Anti-Pollution' warning at some point. This is usually FAP filter related, either the filter is clogged and needs cleaning/replacing or the Eolys fluid has ran low and its stopped the filter from regenerating.

It can have injector problems, though its not as common as the anti pollution warning, they injectors often rust into the head of the engine block making them very difficult or impossible to remove. Ive heard of 2.2s requiring replacement heads to solve this problem.

Its worth bearing in mind that many injector failures, in general not Citroen related, are put down to poor quality of fuel, supermarket or cheap brands etc. I only ever use Shell or BP, its no more expensive but its much better for economy, performance and most importantly your engine.

The FAP or particulate filter has been improved on the later 1.6 and 2.0 HDi 16v units, they tend to give far less problems.

However if the fluid is kept in check and topped up and the car is used for longer journeys where the filter can have chance to regenerate then problems should be minimised.

Many 2.2 HDi engines go on for very good mileages, and i would think by 100K yours will have at least had its FAP fluid topped up at one point. Though its something to check and get topped up. As a side note, has your 2.2 had a cambelt, as thats every 100K.

A 2.2 is tempting, as they do have a bit more power but mainly because they are easier to find with a higher spec, say an Exclusive SE in earlier S1 form.

The 2.0HDi 110 is a very hardy and well proven diesel engine, its the one people favour as it does without the FAP and its generally more reliable and less hassle. Though there are plenty of 2.2s around with high mileages.

What age is your 2.2 and how long have you owned it?

100 miles a day is a breeze in a C5, providing it stays reliable and with good maintenance it should.

[daviemck2006]

It's 2003, 03 plate. I bought it at 58k with full dealer history, had Eolys fluid topped up and particulate filter cleaned at 60k. Serviced every 10k by myself since, only needed tyres and brakes. Now done 100k, cambelt and new battery at 91k. Only thing remotely wrong with it is the backlight on the central display does not light so I cant see the time or radio display etc in the dark. I used to drive taxis and have driven a pug807 2.2, presumably same engine at 290k, still drove like new, my own last car was a fiat ulysse 2.0 jtd, again presumably the psa hdi 110 engine which I sold with 250k on clock and was faultless for the 14months and 16k that I did in it, also done loads of miles in 406, Hdi and 1.9td and 806, 1.9td. Is the Eolys fluid eaisly topped up, might need it soon and do not fancy paying dealer prices, and at my work, our buses run with adblue, is this the same stuff cos I will get it a lot cheaper

[Citroenmad]

The lighting in the central display is a very very easy fix, ive done a few, so there is no need to be left in the dark!

All you need to do, is gently pop out the plastic cover around the display, it does just unclip, no screws and the plastic cover comes off, ive not broken one yet!

Then, there are two screws which hold in the display, remove those and the display will come out. On the back there are three screw in bulb holders, the bulbs can be pulled from the holders and replaced, they are available at halfords or motor factors, or Citroen will happily sell you the whole bulb and holder for a few £s. You'll need the three if none are working.

Good to hear you have had good experiences with PSA diesels, they are usually excellent units, which is why so many other manufacturers have and do use PSA engines.

What kind of economy do you get from your 2.2? Is it manual or auto?

[Kowalski]

With the 2.2 C5's do the 173bhp ones not suffer the same issues as the 136bhp version? i.e. injectors getting stuck in the head, etc etc.

I believe its a different block?

Im not sure though, which is why im a little sceptical of getting one of those.

What makes you think that its a different block?

[daviemck2006]

Manual, does between 45 and 48mpg according to the trip computer, thats on my 50 mile commute on single carriageway a and b roads. I run on the cruise at 50 to 55 all the way, rarely over 2000rpm. When towing, which is the main reason I went for the 2.2, again 50 to 55 on the cruise, averaged 26mpg from here to truro in July, a distance of 750 miles. We stepped out of it as if we had just driven round the corner. Occaisionally after a late shift I will give it a really fast run home from work, needs the cobwebs blown out now and again

[KennyW]

Thanks for all the replies,

Have received the money from Insurance now.

Spotted a high mileage C5 on Autotrader @ £695, my only thought what is the catch or am I being to suspicious.

Would any forum member who lives nearby the seller have a look at it and give me an opinion. It would save a trip around the country.

I'll enquiry where the seller resides and go from there.

Cheers

Kenny

[Citroenmad]

Thanks for all the replies,

Have received the money from Insurance now.

Spotted a high mileage C5 on Autotrader @ £695, my only thought what is the catch or am I being to suspicious.

Would any forum member who lives nearby the seller have a look at it and give me an opinion. It would save a trip around the country.

I'll enquiry where the seller resides and go from there.

Cheers

Kenny

Im guessing thats the 52 reg 2.0HDi SX Estate with 200K? Which does actually look like an Exclusive estate, with its headlamp washers and optional 16" alloy wheels. It could very easily be a 2.2HDi too, as its rare to find that spec in 2.0HDi 110.

[KennyW]

Yeah, thats the one.

I've tried contacting the seller without success to get more info and their location.

I will only consider this car when I have checked it over.

Kenny