Hi,
First off, my car is a 1993 Xantia TD VSX (Hydractive, but no anti-dive) - 112000 miles.
A while ago, I had a problem with the brakes that turned out to be caused by an air leaking into the system via the HP pump (6 piston single port).
Having removed and replaced the pump, I had some problems getting the front of the car to lift up. After a number of attempts at the pressure relief screw on the regulator, I got it so that the front would lift up ok again.
The problem is, ever since then, the front sinks very quickly (on the floor within 20-30 minutes) and the front suspension seems quite hard.
I know it could be the spheres but it just seems like quite a coincidence. I've tried the 'Citerobics' many times but the problem still persists. Also, I am not convinced that the hydractive system is working - I've never noticed any difference in the ride/handling between normal and sport modes since I've had the car (bought Jan 03).
Does anyone have any suggestions please. I apologise if this is an obvious fault - I've maintained/repaired my own cars and motorcycles for years but this is my first hydraulic Cit!
Many thanks,
Stuart
Xantia Suspension Yet Again
Moderator: RichardW
Stuart -
The fast sinking front points to internal hydraulic system leaks.
On the BX the most weak point is the front suspension cylinders - prone to leak after certain mileage in service.
To test for a similar problem in your Xantia - then remove the SMALL return hoses from reservoir leading to jar.
With engine idle, normal height, test for flow from these hoses. Only dripping is acceptable.
If flow evident - repeat test on return hoses from both suspension cylinders in front wheelarches.
Any flow here is a NO-GO test on the suspension cylinders.
If no flow from suspension cylinders - the problem may be a leaking height controller.
The fast sinking front points to internal hydraulic system leaks.
On the BX the most weak point is the front suspension cylinders - prone to leak after certain mileage in service.
To test for a similar problem in your Xantia - then remove the SMALL return hoses from reservoir leading to jar.
With engine idle, normal height, test for flow from these hoses. Only dripping is acceptable.
If flow evident - repeat test on return hoses from both suspension cylinders in front wheelarches.
Any flow here is a NO-GO test on the suspension cylinders.
If no flow from suspension cylinders - the problem may be a leaking height controller.
-
Richard Gallagher
- Posts: 803
- Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 02:36
- Location: South Bucks
- My Cars:
Stuart, you not really notice any obvious difference in the ride whether in or out of sports mode because what the switch actually does when it is turned on is 'narrow down/reduce' the thresholds of when the centre sphere on each axle is 'disconnected'. The points taken for assessment are from such areas as steering wheel angle, steering 'speed', speed of the vehicle, rate the accelerator is pressed/released, body movement and even whether the doors/boot are open! With reference to the doors/boot, a good way of testing whether the suspension is 'switching over' is to have the suspension pumped up, turn off the engine and push down on the car front/rear, noting how soft/hard then open a door, (you should hear a very slight buzzing noise from the engine bay) then push down again. With the door open the suspension should switch to soft mode to the prevent any 'sudden' movement of the body when someone is entering or exiting the car. The reason for the last test is that when the engine is off, the suspension is in 'hard mode' other than when a door is open. Believe me this test really works!
If the light on the suspension switch does not light up or there is no difference on the above test, check fuse number 8 in the engine bay. Then your options are doing Anders test above and then looking at the firmness regulators to see if there are any leaks. The front one is located just behind the radiator on the lower panel with a sphere hanging off it. At the back it is underneath, again with a sphere on it. Unless you have some knowledge of when the spheres were last changed then they are always worth swapping before getting in 'too deep'. Good luck.
If the light on the suspension switch does not light up or there is no difference on the above test, check fuse number 8 in the engine bay. Then your options are doing Anders test above and then looking at the firmness regulators to see if there are any leaks. The front one is located just behind the radiator on the lower panel with a sphere hanging off it. At the back it is underneath, again with a sphere on it. Unless you have some knowledge of when the spheres were last changed then they are always worth swapping before getting in 'too deep'. Good luck.
Anders,
After managing to spend some time looking at it over the weekend, I can't find any signs of leakage but I have noticed a strange thing!
If I switch off the engine, the car seems to stay at the same height for about 10 minutes after which the front end sinks like a stone (I have watched it happen!).
Also, Richard, I tried your test for whether the Hydractive system was functioning. I couldn't hear anything apart from a single click (relay?) from the engine bay when I opened a door. I also couldn't feel any difference in the suspension at either end. BTW, the light comes on when I switch to 'sport' mode and I've pulled fuse 8 from the engine bay fusebox and tested it and it is ok. I think I need to investigate further (or should I just electrically disconnect the Hydractive system and put non-hydractive spheres on each corner?).
Cheers,
Stuart.
After managing to spend some time looking at it over the weekend, I can't find any signs of leakage but I have noticed a strange thing!
If I switch off the engine, the car seems to stay at the same height for about 10 minutes after which the front end sinks like a stone (I have watched it happen!).
Also, Richard, I tried your test for whether the Hydractive system was functioning. I couldn't hear anything apart from a single click (relay?) from the engine bay when I opened a door. I also couldn't feel any difference in the suspension at either end. BTW, the light comes on when I switch to 'sport' mode and I've pulled fuse 8 from the engine bay fusebox and tested it and it is ok. I think I need to investigate further (or should I just electrically disconnect the Hydractive system and put non-hydractive spheres on each corner?).
Cheers,
Stuart.
Stuart -
Are you aware of this document :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/citroen%20guide.pdf
found within this document is an exemplary functional description of the Hydractive(I) system found on XM/Xantia's.
It readily gives you a system overwiev - possibly the info you need to understand what could be the problem with your Xantia.
It's a 0.6Mb .pdf file.
Since you have excluded the basic problems with the hydraulics - it's obvious you have a problem in the Hydractive system. My guess is that it's related to the electrovalve and/or the control of it.
Are you aware of this document :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/citroen%20guide.pdf
found within this document is an exemplary functional description of the Hydractive(I) system found on XM/Xantia's.
It readily gives you a system overwiev - possibly the info you need to understand what could be the problem with your Xantia.
It's a 0.6Mb .pdf file.
Since you have excluded the basic problems with the hydraulics - it's obvious you have a problem in the Hydractive system. My guess is that it's related to the electrovalve and/or the control of it.
-
Richard Gallagher
- Posts: 803
- Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 02:36
- Location: South Bucks
- My Cars:
Stuart, the fact the you can hear the relay click would suggest that the ECU is reponding to the doors opening, but because you cannot hear any buzzing (but remember it is fairly quiet, but I can hear it on both of mine, 1997 VSX 24K, 1994 VSX 111K) would tend to lean me towards the firmness regulator, but bear in mind that if the centre sphere is duff, you will not notice any difference in the firmness when pushing down with the door test. When I recently bought the older Xantia the fuse was U/S (centre sphere disconnected) the ride was quite firm and choppy because hydractive spheres are much 'harder' than normal ones. As far as it sinking like a stone after 10 minutes I can't really help you, but as far as normal spheres being used, I can offer you the following. I changed both of my cars over to normal spheres on each wheel with the normal hydractive sphere in the centre in order to soften the ride further. What I can say is that I much prefer this set-up as it gives the ride that I 'expect' from a Citroen. The handling does not appear to be affected ay all, if it was then then I could always switch over to 'sport' mode.
Stuart,
About quick sinking of the front end, a member of our local Citroen forum here reported a problem with internal leakage of front hydractive valve on his '93 Xantia VSX, causing frequent ticking of the regulator. So this is my theory about your problem: after 10 min, front of the car will sink a little, because of slight internal leakage in hydraulic cylinders and height corrector, causing the corrector to open. According to schema of HA2 system, if the hydractive valve is leaky, LHM will escape through return pipe from the stifness regulator back to LHM tank. Try observing output from this pipe.
About quick sinking of the front end, a member of our local Citroen forum here reported a problem with internal leakage of front hydractive valve on his '93 Xantia VSX, causing frequent ticking of the regulator. So this is my theory about your problem: after 10 min, front of the car will sink a little, because of slight internal leakage in hydraulic cylinders and height corrector, causing the corrector to open. According to schema of HA2 system, if the hydractive valve is leaky, LHM will escape through return pipe from the stifness regulator back to LHM tank. Try observing output from this pipe.