2 quickies - oil sensor + LHM level

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

HDI Dave
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 May 2009, 11:20
Location: Bradford,Yorkshire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by HDI Dave »

Thanks guys for all the replies :)

I will indeed investigate the 'missing',stolen? lol LHM at the weekend, it seems ok so far..

hobblerian wrote:
citronut wrote:the XM does have an low presure warning light for the hydraulic presure as well,
it also does have tyhe tank level indicator, as all propper hydraulic Citroëns do,

HDI Dave is enquireing about both engine oil warning lamp also the hydraulic level indication on the tank

regards malcolm
I'd assumed he'd fixed his stop light issue by topping up his LHM and that was put to bed... No one had seemd to mention much about the engine oil light he was also getting, if this lights up after its running for half hour then its engine oil pressure related, where as he said he had checked level and it was ok and his didn't burn any oil. It could be a failing engine oil pump or blocked strainer. The only engine oil sensor thats been had mentioned so far was about the level indicator not the pressure one.
Hobbler, yes mate, I can see exactly where you're coming from..thanks for your input, I'd not even thought of an oil pressure issue! doh!

When you say strainer,do you mean the pick up pipe,in the sump?

Hmm, I must sort this asap... The car runs great,has always been well maintained, (I have all the history,been oil changed to death), even if it is an old dear now, at 183,000 miles. So she gets driven gently...mind you,I have to, fuel's gone up again aint it :roll:
The only thing that I have noticed is, if I boot it, there's a cloud of dark smoke...maybe it's just because it needs a decent thrash.. :twisted:
...if the strainer or whatever was partially blocked, how would it suck more oil through to burn out the back :? p.s, I don't boot it now,that's probably why my oil's not disappearing.

Would it be possible to fit an oil pressure guage? I've done them in the past,but you're talking donkeys years ago,smiths chrome dials etc :lol:

Hopefully it could just be the oil sensor wire as Jim suggests or summat trivial.

oh by the way, it doesn't clatter, just the normal diesel..clatter!

Thanks all, Dave.
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
hobblerian
Posts: 41
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 22:52
Location:
My Cars:

Post by hobblerian »

Yes meant the pick up in the sump, I have to say I'm no auto mechanic but only have an engineering background, that was until I got one of my legs smashed up, hence the name hobbler.

Just my thoughts-

If it only flickers once it's warm then the pump is obviously creating enough pressure with cold, thick oil, but once its warmed up then it seems feasable to me that the engine oil pump cannot create the same pressure with the hotter thinner oil, which would could pass more easily around any worn pump gears. Or even pass through a partially stuck open pump relief valve.

If the strainer/pick up was blocked then I'd expect the light to be on all the time, especially if cold, as the thicker oil would pass through the blocked pickup gause less easily.

If the wiring was chaffed on the sensor it would flicker whether it was warm or cold.

As the oil pump is at least pumping something this could explain why it does not sound rattlely.

All I'm saying is that this could be an early sign of an impending failure of an oil pump.

Most diesels will emit dark clouds of smoke when pressed hard, this is usually uneifficiently burnt fuel combined with the expulsion of the built up soot and dust in the exhaust system. The practice of clearing the the exhaust is usually recommended to be carried out whenever you have a persistent tailgater close behind.

If oil was being burnt then the exhaust would have a bluey tinge/haze, and as you've said already the level is good and it dosent seem to use any.

If you could get an analogue oil pressure gauge in somewhere then it would help alot with the diagnosis and point to either sensor or pump.

If it was my car I'd first clean up all contacts and inspect the wiring on the pressure switch, if the flicker still occurs then change the switch itself. If it still happened then i'd reluctantly turn my attention to the pump itself, as this is usually internal to the engine it could turn in to an unwanted and rather big job.

Hope it is the pressure sensor or the wiring playing up, I've certainly had enough sensors pack up on the cooling and temperature systems on mine.

Ian
Previous 90H S1 XM 2.1td SD Manual
Current 97P S2 XM 2.1td VSX Manual
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

i agree with Ian but always check/replace easiest components first off,

if its had regular oil changes the engine should olny just be run in at that milage, as these are usualy prety bullet proof lumps if looked after,

i also hole hearted;y agree with the sooty deposits over tail gaters :twisted:,

as you also say you drive her gently this is why she chucks out a load of soot when you use the Mexican tune up button



regards malcolm
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Dave, sorry, In my original post i thought you meant the oil level warning light. My bad. My brain has been on the dodgy side these past few days...

It's fairly easy to pop a pressure gauge on. Remove the oil pressure switch on the front of the engine and plumb in a gauge. I'd do this for peace of mind.

Oil pressure switches do fail quite regularly and this is most likely the problem but a gauge will make certain. I had the same happen on my old Peugeot 205 but in reverse - it caused the STOP light not to illuminate at all...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
HDI Dave
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 May 2009, 11:20
Location: Bradford,Yorkshire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by HDI Dave »

Cheers for that Ian,indeed,very feasable.

I was looking for a picture of the said oil light,the orange one,like a dripping tap, and found this:
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f1 ... ght-97516/
I reckon the red 'oil can' light would come on if it was pressure,hopefully :)

I might invest in an oil guage,as you say Jim,for peace of mind.. analogue or old school?

hobblerian wrote: The practice of clearing the the exhaust is usually recommended to be carried out whenever you have a persistent tailgater close behind.

Ian
:lol: :lol: Funnily enough, I have a nice little roadtrip to York today, and tailgater's are one of my pet hates..I do hope my right foot doesn't go into a floor down spasm :twisted: :P :twisted:

Cheers all, Dave.
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

HDI Dave wrote: I was looking for a picture of the said oil light,the orange one,like a dripping tap
The orange one is the oil level warning light and yes, if it was pressure Dave, the STOP light would be on too..

The symbol is not so much a dripping tap as a dripping dipstick :lol:

In which case, my initial comments are OK :D I'm not loosing it after all!

Dave, an analogue meter every time for measuring oil pressure but if it's definitely the orange one in the top right had corner of the LH bank of lights that comes on then I'd not worry too much about it...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
HDI Dave
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 May 2009, 11:20
Location: Bradford,Yorkshire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by HDI Dave »

CitroJim wrote: Dave, an analogue meter every time for measuring oil pressure but if it's definitely the orange one in the top right had corner of the LH bank of lights that comes on then I'd not worry too much about it...
Yup,that's the one Jim. So you reckon a good old fashioned analogue gauge then,not an electrickery jobby?
Hopefully that's all it is then.

Right, I have to set off to York now..if anyone spys a dead Xantia on the A64 gimmee a tow :lol:
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
HDI
Posts: 1468
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 15:46
Location: West Mids
My Cars:
x 7

Post by HDI »

Personally I don't think a pressure gauge is necessary but if you do decide to install one go for an electronic type. The advantage is that you don't have to route that annoying capillary tube from the engine bay. Electronic types just have a wire from the sensor, much easier to handle !

The reason I wouldn't bother with a gauge is that the pressure can be verified by a test gauge to eliminate concern that it may be low. 9 out of 10 it's a pressure switch or wiring. Oil systems are so reliable on modern engines that manufacturers abandoned fitting pressure gauges years ago to stop owners from panicking about pressure readings !

The only time they have merit is on highly modified engines when things are pushed to the limit, or, vanity for those that like their toys !

If I was going to fit any extra gauge it would be for oil temp, only wish the one in mine worked :(
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

I meant to say that I was meaning a test gauge and not a permanent installation...

Is your oil temperature gauge (I agree, a very useful one and I miss it on MK2 V6) not reading at all HDI?

Most likely the blue sensor on the front of the sump pan or the wiring to it. Slip off the connector and give it a quick clean as a first check...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
HDI
Posts: 1468
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 15:46
Location: West Mids
My Cars:
x 7

Post by HDI »

Interesting comment Jim !!!

So are the oil level and temp sensor independent then ?
If so my prayers are answered ! I had been putting off the job of fixing this fault due to the absolute PITA it is to replace the level sensor on the back of the block !
If the oil temp sensor is separate it will be done in the blink of an eye !!
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

The oiling system has three sensors. One for pressure, one for level, one for temperature.
HDI Dave
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 May 2009, 11:20
Location: Bradford,Yorkshire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by HDI Dave »

HDI wrote: Oil systems are so reliable on modern engines that manufacturers abandoned fitting pressure gauges years ago to stop owners from panicking about pressure readings !

The only time they have merit is on highly modified engines when things are pushed to the limit, or, vanity for those that like their toys !
Totally agree mate, I'm betting me bottom dollar it's the sensor or wiring as suggested, thaks all :) I'll check it out this weekend.

She ran sweet as a nut today on my 80 mile round trip, at 70 mph + ( + for overtaking trucks and getting out the way of eejuts...etc). I forget how good a motorway car it is,she's mainly used for commuting/taxi ing the kids around etc, poor old girl...
...she really does seem to enjoy stretching her legs though :wink:
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Great stuff Dave :D Pleased she served you well today. They do enjoy a good fast run every now and again! If you need it, I'll check my sensor and see what resistance it should be.
HDI wrote:manufacturers abandoned fitting pressure gauges years ago to stop owners from panicking about pressure readings !


I think that's why the Mk2 V6 lost the oil temperature gauge in favour of the admittedly useful gear position indicator. The V6 can run some quite high oil temperatures in the summer when given serious welly. Certainly enough to alarm some owners. MK1 V6 owners get alarmed while MK2 V6 owners just remain blissfully unaware!!!
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
mendedit
Posts: 90
Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 20:12
Location: The Bores Inn
My Cars:

Post by mendedit »

Re: LHM- If the level dropped fairly quickly and there are no leaks then I would suspect the sphere diaphragms have died,
you would notice a hard bumpy rear end [on the car that is!] or there could have been a lot of air in the system that suddenly cleared itself,
The best way I found to top-up the LHM tank is to sink the car to the ground on it's lowest setting,
Then, fill almost up to the top of the white filter that can be seen through the filler hole ignoring the red line/ sight glass indicator, this way you know it's full and also know the LHM won't come over the top when it's all back in the tank,
but remember to bleed any air out once topped-up via. the bleed screw to the front of the engine above the regulator sphere where all the hydraulic pipes feed in, a 12mm hex. I think or maybe a 13 do this a few times with the engine running.
I've done this for the last 8yrs. and have had no probs.
and everything hydraulic feels sure and firm.
The other thing is if you've been doing a lot of heavy braking and worn the pads down super quick or/and wrong pad friction material. :roll:
The world is full of them and a lot are in
hobblerian
Posts: 41
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 22:52
Location:
My Cars:

Post by hobblerian »

Really must brush up on the differences between XMs and Xantias, 2 oil lights hey, who'd have thought it??? Still least it sounds a nice easy fix, sorry to have diverted the train of thought, my bad!
Previous 90H S1 XM 2.1td SD Manual
Current 97P S2 XM 2.1td VSX Manual
Post Reply