Xantia timing belt might have slipped

Jaf · Post by **Jaf** » 09 Dec 2010, 19:38

Hi guys, great site. Looking for a bit of help.

My car's a 1998 1.9TD Xantia. LHD Spanish car. 140,000kms.

Both my dad and me have repaired all our cars ourselves but this is my first diesel and I'm a bit unsure of diesels.

A couple of days ago on the way to the annual road worthiness test (MOT/ ITV) on the motorway doing 120kph the car started to sound a bit clattery and there was a bit of sand coloured smoke on hard acceleration. I had to go through with the test (or get a fine!) and the car passed. I drove the car gingerly home but it was 50kms on motorway and then mountain road. Got home ok but the next day the car wouldn't start. Managed to get the car going and now there is masses of black smoke out the exhaust when reving in neutral but none that I could see whilst driving. Drove it 10mins to the garage and the mechanic thinks the timing belt has slipped a tooth. He can't even look at the car until a week tuesday though.

Clattery, black smoke and less power...belt sound likely? I need the car but I have left it with the mechanic, don't want to kill the engine!

Many thanks, Jaf

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Dec 2010, 20:57

Hi Jaf and welcome to the forum

Not necessarily a belt slip although a quick check of the timing is an easy and a very wise first step.

Did the Engine management light come on when this happened? I ask as the symptoms also describe what would happen if the Diesel Pump timing went far out of tolerance either due to a problem with the pump, the ECU or the sensors.

Jaf · Post by **Jaf** » 09 Dec 2010, 21:28

Jim, thanks for your reply. The engine management light flickered on when I couldn't get the car to start, but only when the engine was turning over. I think it was as the battery was dying ( after a while had to charge it up ).

Am very tempted to get the car back from the mechanic, but am worried that it is the belt and it could snap. Only took the car to mechanic for his opinion but he said I shouldn't drive it. A good way of getting the work!

What are Xantia's like for freewheeling? I'm guessing no brakes or steering...it's all downhill from the garage.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 09 Dec 2010, 22:05

Being a 1998 Xantia, it will have anti sink, and if it works ok, the car WILL stay up at normal right height when the pump is NOT running..

Now - as for your symptoms, this sounds JUST like a ONE TOOTH slip on the belt, which should NOT have caused any damage..

The symptoms you describe sound just like Valve timing, NOT injection timing. Ive done this myself, when Ive tried to do a belt WITHOUT a timing pin in the crank...

The engine goes after a bit indicating incorrect valve timing. Get the covers off, and set the crank to TDC useing the Timing hole and a 6mm allen key, behind the starter motor.

Theres nothing untoward in these XUD engines!! Basic priciples are the same SUCK SQUEEZE POP EXPAND.... except the fuel is injected onto the top of the compressed air - but NOT Directly - rather then a spark igniting a fuel air mixture. If you imagine an invisible spark plug, then you are there

Once you find the TDC setting, theres then an 8mm bolt hole for the Cam shaft sprocket around 4 to 5 oclock position... then the injection sprocket also has an 8mm bolt hole at either 12 o oclock, or 4 o clock. There two positions for other reasons that you can remove the injection pump without disturbing the Cam belt.

Once you got both sprockets and the Crank all timed up, refit a belt and tension it TIGHT, useing the auto spring loaded tensioner. The XUD engines break all tensioning rules in that the belt should be TIGHT, and not slack.

My guess is when you got the Crank at TDC, you Will not get the bolt in the Cam Shaft sprocket screwed into the head.

Good luck
Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 10 Dec 2010, 08:52

if anything was out of time how did it get through the emmision test,

regards malcolm

Jaf · Post by **Jaf** » 16 Dec 2010, 12:53

Decided not to try to freewheel the car home. Felt a little dangerous due to hairpin turns with sheer drops!

Went to see mechanic yesterday. He's managed to look at the car and the alternator belt had lost a strand, which wrapped itself round the crankshaft pulley and belt. Yikes! Had been meaning to change the alternator belt for some time but never got round to it. Let that be a lesson to me!

Hopefully the damage is just the timing belt, should find out later today or tomorrow.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 16 Dec 2010, 12:57

THATS the PERFECT indication that the Spring loaded tensioner IS BUGGERED!!

You WILL need to change that too!! Or else you will be dooing the same in a few months time!!!

Its the reason why its happened!!

Paul

Jaf · Post by **Jaf** » 18 Dec 2010, 18:48

Got the car back yesterday. He replaced both belts, 2 roller/ tensioners and crankshaft pulley. Cost 350 euros 280 of which was parts. Parts are very expensive in Spain, but labour's cheap enough.

Lovely to have a car again...best of all the pump timing must have been out a bit cos she drives lovely now, much better acceleration.

Thanks for all the advice.

Post by **CitroJim** » 18 Dec 2010, 18:55

That's brilliant news

You're right. labour is cheap. Here that labour charge could just about cover the time a mechanic takes to suck his teeth and stab furiously on his calculator.

I've always believed garage calculators are specially designed for the job. the equals key is the squared key for most but the cubed key for really tough jobs...