Citroen Relay engine swap XUD advice

Post by **CitroJim** » 15 Dec 2010, 19:23

Warren,

In Paul's absence (I'm sure he won't mind) the two holes to use are the plain ones that will take an M8 bolt. I presume the second hole in a spoke you refer to is a tapped one and that's used (with it's opposite number) to attach a special puller to remove the sprocket from the pump taper.

As Paul says, it is absolutely correct that the right timing point is right on one of the pump's compressions.

The two plain holes are in time when one is at around 12 o'clock and the other is at 4 o'clock. In this position, the holes should meet up with tapped M8 holes in the pump cradle. Use two M8 bolts as timing pins and screw them in.

The reason there are two holes in the pump sprocket is so that the pump can be removed without upsetting the cambelt or the timing; the sprocket will 'hang' on the two bolts.

It's the same with the cam sprocket although on that sprocket there is only one plain M8 hole and a corresponding threaded hole in the head at around (I think, if I remember properly) 4 o'clock. I really can't exactly recall but you can't go wrong as there's only one tapped hole in the head that corresponds with the plain hole in the cam sprocket.

Have you found the crank (flywheel) pinning boss and corresponding hole in the flywheel to time and lock the crank?

Crank timing is roughly there when the keyway is at around 10 or 11 o'clock and you can slide a rod (I use a length of kunifer brake pipe) into the pinning hole and into the corresponding hole in the flywheel. The pinning hole boss hides behind the starter motor and is hard to see. Sometimes it is easier to take the starter motor out if you are not familiar with where it is.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 15 Dec 2010, 20:07

Single holes, lines up at around 4 o clock...

Anyone got a Pump Pully picture???? Should help this along!

Bosch OR Lucas, it does not matter, as both Pully to Back Plate positions are identical! The pumps ARE timed different, but this is done by the positioning of the pump. Not the pullys...

Paul

Post by **CitroJim** » 15 Dec 2010, 21:02

citroenxm wrote: Anyone got a Pump Pully picture???? Should help this along!

Indeed I have Paul

Red arrows show the timing holes in the approximately times position.

warren555 · Post by **warren555** » 16 Dec 2010, 15:40

Brilliant gentleman, thank you. Unfotunately the whole day has been pretty much rained off for me so I took the time to do many other neglected chores.
Looking at the forecast for tomorrow, it looks cold as hell but sunny all day so I should have a good run at it.
I made my umpteenth run to the motor factors today and have all that I need now to re-assemble and change or top up all fluids.
Once again thanks for the advice and I will be back tomorrow night with the results.
Warren

warren555 · Post by **warren555** » 16 Dec 2010, 16:06

Jim to answer the rest of your questions.
I have the cam timed up correctly and I have just looked at the fuel pump again and by some fluke I have it right. The only thing I have not done is insert the second bolt. I have decided to leave the pump in for now and to test it by cracking the injectors once I have it turning over.
I have got hold of another fuel pump in case this one is faulty so then I can just switch them. Without knowing about the second bolt, I could have created a few problems for myself with the sprocket moving on the one bolt.
I have found the crank pinning hole. I had already taken the starter motor out to jam a screwdriver into the flywheel when I undid the crankshaft bolt. So when I was told about the hole for pinning the crank it was not hard to find.
If I had asked before I undid the crankshaft bolt, I wold have used this pinning method to hold the flywheel still instead of jamming with a screwdriver (which did work but slipped quite a bit before binding on the flywheel).
Once again, thanks for all your help.
Warren

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 16 Dec 2010, 20:17

IF you are NOT removing the pump, theres no need to put both bolts in, just one, and in either hole too...

Sounds like your dooing well!

Paul

warren555 · Post by **warren555** » 17 Dec 2010, 13:44

Making some progress despite the snow showers.
I have the belt on and the engine is turning freely without binding up, so looks promising.
I asked the question before but need some clarification.
The tensioner and arm on the vehicle are locked in place. Even with the nut holding it on undone by a few threads, it still does not swing around.
My question is if there is no up and down movement in the arm, why the need for a spring to tension something that is locked in position.
I am not doubting the answer I was given, but need to understand myself as I don't want to re-assemble everying only to find out the at the tensioner was shot in the first place.
What concerns me is that if there is no movement on this part, how do you tension the belt and how does the auto-tension spring work against a part that is locked in position?
Warren

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Dec 2010, 15:50

Theres a SECOND Bolt holding the tensioner in place!

Its a 13mm Bolt RIGHT UNDER the Cam Sprocket... You need to feel for it, you cannot see it clearly, you may spy it if you look between the sprocket and head...

That also needs undooing.. as well as the pivot nut..

Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 17 Dec 2010, 19:03

and if you have the nut and the bolt loose then the sping loaded plundger is stuck in its houseing,

this will require freeing off,

regards malcolm

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Dec 2010, 19:07

We know the plunger is not loose Malc, It Sprung out when he removed the top engine mount....

So my guess is the top Nut under the Cam sprocket is still done up..

Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 17 Dec 2010, 19:19

ok sorry Paul i missed that bit

regards malcolm

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Dec 2010, 19:24

Dont be daft mac, no need for appologies, Ive done it may times myself!!

Paul

warren555 · Post by **warren555** » 17 Dec 2010, 20:53

Yes Paul you are right again. The nut is still done up.

I will tension up the belt and finish the re-assembly tomorrow.
My son is home so I have another pair of hands to help, so come tomorrow night I will have a clear picture of how thingst stand.
Thanks for all comments and assistance.
Warren

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 18 Dec 2010, 21:46

Excellent news Warren, do let us know how it runs.

Looks like my little Volcane isn't going to be back on the road until the new year, the blasted post still hasn't delivered my tappet shims

Not that I really want to drive anywhere right now...

-Alex

warren555 · Post by **warren555** » 04 Jan 2011, 18:36

Well finaly today I managed to get everything assembled.
I had to make a few modifications along the way but I have just come in from the cold a happy man.
The battery was flat (seriously dead) so had to jump start from my other van. 5 minutes of charging, a turn of the the key and hey presto, it roared into life.
This started out as an engine swap, switched to a fuel pump problem and ended up as a timing belt issue.
At a guess, it looks like the belt slipped, knocked the timing out, the pistons struck the valves and locked in that position and the belt then continued to spin or just shread itself? Sound possible/probable?

Along the way I have:
1. Ordered the wrong parts.
2. Reliased that this is not the original Relay engine (bought an intake manifold and when it arrived realised that there was no port for the EGR valve pipe?! Ummed and arred until today when I just blanked off the EGR port and put the new manifold on. The old one has about 10mm gunk inside on all faces).
3. Learned a hell of a lot from some very knowlegable people.
4. Learned how to make snow (Put on coat to go work on van....starts to snow).

It's been a steep leaning curve for me and without the help of some of the people on here it would not have been possible.
Thank you to all who have shown much patience and helped me along the way.
Happy new year.
Regards,
Warren

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Citroen Relay engine swap XUD advice

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